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Here's PensionBee customer, Tony, three years on
In one of our first ever customer case studies, we met 53-year-old Tony. We recently caught up with him to find out if he’s on track for a happy retirement, and learn how PensionBee is helping him achieve his goals.

In one of our first ever customer case studies three years ago, we met Tony, who was approaching retirement and living in Weston-Super-Mare with his wife. He had only recently joined PensionBee, after getting fed up with his previous ‘old-fashioned’ provider, and was starting to think more about his plans for retirement. We recently caught up with Tony to find out if he’s on track for a happy retirement, and learn how PensionBee is helping him achieve his goals. Here’s what he had to say...

PensionBee: What made PensionBee stand out when you were looking for a new provider?

Tony: What stood out for me straight away was the fact PensionBee is a digital platform. I’d had trouble trying to transfer my pensions between providers before, and when I was looking for alternatives, I saw your advert and PensionBee immediately stood out. Corporate providers and the pensions industry as a whole seems somewhat outdated now. The idea of being able to manage my pension through my phone seemed like a no-brainer and much more convenient. Just getting updates by email was a big change!

Even when you were a smaller company, the reviews and comments I’d seen showed lots of people felt the same and addressed any concerns I had.

PensionBee: You originally spoke about wanting to use your pension to buy a new home with your wife. Have you been able to do this? If so, what has your drawdown experience with PensionBee been like?

Tony: Funnily enough I have. I recently turned 55 and took my _corporation_tax tax-free lump sum, but have left the remaining 75% invested. My wife and I moved to Northern Ireland a few years ago to be closer to her daughter. We’ve been renting here up ‘til now, but we’re just about to buy a house and I’ve used some of my pension for this.

If I had to describe the PensionBee withdrawal process in one word... I’d say ‘fluid’. Everything has just been at the touch of a button and easy to do.

In the run up to this, last year there were some market fluctuations, and this worried me a little with the purchase coming up. I knew I was invested in the Tailored Plan, but you had less risky plans I could choose. So I switched my pension to the Preserve Plan, as this gave me the reassurance that my funds were fairly stable. Being able to switch plans like this meant I could plan ahead and protect my pension, ready for when I needed the money.


PensionBee: How has PensionBee helped you become pension confident?

Tony: Everything is just easier and you’re able to do it with the touch of a button in your app. It’s helped with real-time thinking and planning for my pension and retirement plans. I used to only see my pension balance once a year, which didn’t give me much idea or understanding, even though it’s my money. But it’s now just more tangible and flexible to align with me and my needs.

It’s helped with real-time thinking and planning for my pension and retirement plans.

I can’t see myself retiring anytime soon, I think I’ll be working to at least State Pension age, similar to lots of other people I think. But I know my money is in safe hands, and I can easily consider and change my investment options as I get closer to retirement. Lots of people are nervous about digital services, but it’s a no-brainer for me, especially moving forward.

PensionBee: Looking back, what advice would you give to a younger Tony?

Tony: I suppose when I was younger and started my pension, I didn’t really have any idea about it. I knew I was paying into one with my employer, but the process was a bit of a ‘sign here’ one, You accepted you were paying into it each month but I didn’t really understand where my money was going I guess, or even give it much thought. So I think I should have looked after my money better as a whole and thought about the future more to put me in the position I wanted to be in.

PensionBee: What do you enjoy most about PensionBee?

Tony: Just the overall offering. The app and newsletters are great. It’s nice to see your profiles on Twitter and Facebook, it just isn’t something I’d expect from a provider and it’s reassuring I suppose. Being kept in the loop and having these insights into the company and the brand is brilliant.

I’ve also enjoyed growing with PensionBee as a company, I joined quite early on and have seen how far you’ve come and how the services have grown too. Even though you’ve increased in size a lot, and quickly, it’s been seamless and communicated really well throughout.

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PensionBee: How do you think the pensions industry could improve to help consumers?

Tony: It needs to be more tangible and visible to customers. It’s people’s money, so they should be able to see in real-time what’s happening, not just getting an update once a year like I used to. There needs to be a better, more fluid arrangement around the whole pension system. Nothing is combined across the industry, it feels broken almost and just takes a long time for things to happen.

Where PensionBee are working with banks and other providers to bring together services and systems for its customers, others aren’t shifting. You’re setting the example for others to follow.

PensionBee: Can you describe your experience with us in 3 words?

Tony: Second to none!

As always, we’d love to hear your feedback, so leave your comments below or get in touch with the team on Twitter!

Celebrating Pride Month at PensionBee
Promoting diversity and inclusivity is a key focus at PensionBee. Find out how we’re celebrating Pride Month and the LGBTQ+ movement as a company.

Throughout June we’re proud to be celebrating LGBTQ+ Pride Month at PensionBee, and even though we can’t join our local parade this year, there are lots of fun things we’re doing internally.

LGBTQ+ Pride is about appreciating community and diversity, remembering the progress that has been made against discrimination, and celebrating love in all its forms. Pride Month takes place every year in June, and is celebrated across the world in recognition of the LGBTQ+ movement. June was selected as the month to celebrate Pride as it was the month when the Stonewall riots took place in New York in 1969.

A year after the Stonewall riots, Mark Segal, an LGBTQ+ pioneer and witness to the riots, founded the first New York City Pride march in 1970, which has been running ever since. The first Pride festival in the UK took place in 1972 in London, with around 2,000 people in attendance. Now more than a million people turn out in London to celebrate each year.

LGBTQ+ at PensionBee

Whilst Pride Month brings visibility to the LGBTQ+ community and the issues they face in society, promoting diversity and inclusion within our team culture is a key focus at PensionBee all year round. The concept of diversity and inclusivity encompasses acceptance and respect and is central to our five company values of Love, Innovation, Honesty, Simplicity and Quality.

At PensionBee we have two Diversity Champions, Rachael and James, and are planning to expand the team in the coming weeks. Our Diversity Champions are responsible for running internal events that help us to celebrate our differences, highlight our similarities and create a safe space where important discussions can take place.

This month, Pride has provided us with an opportunity to discuss love and identity as a team, sharing experiences and increasing our knowledge about the LGBTQ+ community. James, one of our Diversity Champions, says: “It’s important for us to embrace and celebrate our diversity in all it’s forms, so it’s great that myself and Rachael can bring colleagues together to celebrate Pride.

At PensionBee, we believe that having a diverse and inclusive team allows us to better understand our diverse customer base, leading to better business decisions. Our CMO, Jasper Martens, says: “We’re stewards of our customers’ hard-earned pension money and can only do our job well if we’ve built a pension product with input from a diverse, inclusive and happy team.

Our vision is to live in a world where everyone has a happy retirement, and we believe that a happy team will lead to happy customers. That’s why happiness is at the heart of our team culture and so everyone at PensionBee has a ‘Happiness!’ Manager who they meet with every 6-8 weeks. A ‘Happiness!’ meeting focuses solely on how someone’s feeling, and what the company can do to support them. During these meetings conversations cover everything from a colleague’s work and home life to their emotional wellbeing which includes encouraging them to be their full self in all aspects of their life, particularly when it comes to their identity.

Our LGBTQ+ Bar

One event that we’ve set up during Pride Month is our LGBTQ+ Bar which opens every Friday at 5pm. In our virtual bar we have themed discussions as a team, providing an opportunity for colleagues and friends to come together to share stories and learn from each other. Each week has had a different topic of conversation, ranging from gender binary and fluidity, to how people’s experiences have changed within the workplace. While we’ve only had two sessions to date, we believe it’s initiatives like this that help make PensionBee such a fun and inclusive place to work, and speaks to the culture we’ve created where everyone feels valued and supported.

Sam, one of our Nectar Collectors, who joined our first LGBTQ+ Bar said “I have become so comfortable in my identity at work that I recently hosted a Q&A session centred on gender identity and what it means to be non-binary. I never expected to succeed in the financial industry as a queer, transgender person, until I joined PensionBee.

Pride Slack channel

We have also set up a ‘PensionBee Pride’ Slack channel which allows everyone in the company to share ideas and resources and discuss the ways we can support the LGBTQ+ community. Ari, a member of our marketing teams says: “It’s been great to hear from everyone and learn about the LGBTQ+ history, get recommendations for some podcasts to listen to and just be a part of general chat around the Pride movement.

Donut catch-ups

Another initiative we have at PensionBee to promote diversity and inclusivity is our Donut program. Two members of staff get randomly paired together and go out for a donut (getting a donut isn’t compulsory though!). This is an opportunity to get to know other members of the company who you may not usually get a chance to interact with in the office. Whilst the topic of conversations vary, lots of recent Donut’s have been centred around the issues that matter most to us from Pride Month to the Black Lives Matter movement.

At PensionBee we know that everyone is unique, from our team members through to our 280,000 registered customers, and we frequently celebrate this both internally and externally. We’re passionate about challenging the outdated pensions industry, and part of that is challenging the traditional outlook of what a workplace should look like. That’s why we think it’s important to champion diversity year-round at PensionBee, not just during Pride Month.

Listen to our CEO, Romi, talking pensions with Times Money Mentor
Our CEO, Romi Savova, recently took part in a Times Money Mentor webinar discussing pensions, planning ahead and how to simplify your finances.

On Friday 5 June our CEO, Romi, was invited to join a live webinar for Times Money Mentor, a free website from The Times designed to help you make smarter financial decisions and grow your money through how-to guides, articles, Q&As, inspirational stories and videos. The event saw Romi, Gemma Godfrey, Executive Editor of Times Money Mentor and Kate Palmer, Senior Money Reporter for The Times and The Sunday Times, discuss the importance of planning ahead for a happy retirement.

Romi discussed what coronavirus means for your pensions and investments, making the most of your pension contributions and answered viewers’ questions live with Gemma and Kate. You can watch a full recording of the webinar below. If you have any questions that weren’t covered, let us know in the comments below or get in touch with us on Twitter!

Watch Money to the Masses’ live pension Q&A with our CEO
Our CEO, Romi Savova, recently took part in a live Q&A with Money to the Masses, answering your pension related questions.

On Friday 15 May our CEO, Romi, took part in a live pensions Q&A, hosted by Money to the Masses director Damien Fahy. Money to the Masses is one of the UK’s leading independent personal finance websites, empowering consumers to take control of their finances. Romi answered reader questions about consolidating your pensions, the options you have when drawing down your pension, and how to make the most of the Money Purchase Annual Allowance (MPAA).

Here are some of the key topics Romi covered:

You can watch the full replay of the Q&A below. If you have any questions that weren’t covered, let us know in the comments below or get in touch with us on Twitter!

8 questions that can speed up your pension transfer
Whilst our aim is to make pension transfers as easy as possible, some providers are still stuck in the dark ages. Find out some of the questions you can your provider to speed your transfer up.

This article was last updated on 21/05/2025

Transferring a pension should be simple, however this isn’t always the case. At PensionBee we want to make transfers as easy as possible, but unfortunately not all providers share our vision. When we looked at pension transfer times across the industry, we found that some providers take over two months to complete a transfer.

We know that slow pension transfers can make it even harder for you to stay engaged with your retirement savings. This can potentially leave you worse off in the long run. Our Cost of Disengagement Report dives into the risks of ignoring your pension and highlights why the industry urgently needs to make saving for the future easier.

As soon as we know the details of your pension, we’ll try to do all the legwork for you. But there are a few things you can do to speed up your transfer. Here are eight questions to ask both your pension provider and yourself to make your transfer quicker.

1. What type of pension do I have?

Most workplace and personal pensions are defined contribution pensions. Transferring a defined contribution pension should be fairly straightforward. Pension transfers can be more complex if you have a defined benefit pension (also known as a ‘final salary’ pension). You may have one if you’ve worked for a large company or in the public sector. With defined benefit pensions, you’ll have to seek independent financial advice if it’s worth over £30,000, which can delay the transfer.

2. Will I lose any benefits or face charges when I transfer?

Pensions can sometimes come with guarantees, known as ‘safe-guarded benefits‘, as long as you remain in the scheme. The level of reward will vary, but it’s important to understand what you’ll lose before committing to transfer your pension. If you’re not sure, you can ask your old provider for more information.

When leaving a scheme early, you may be faced with a pension transfer charge, also known as an ‘exit fee’. The amount you’re charged can vary between providers and schemes. It’s important to understand how much you’ll be charged and the impact the charges can have on your pension pot size in the short and long-term.

At PensionBee, we charge one single annual management fee, which is taken directly from your pension pot. This will be between 0.50 and 0._rate, depending on the plan you choose. There are no hidden transfer fees, or any other kind of fees.

3. Does my new provider need to send a letter of authority?

A letter of authority (LOA) shows providers that you’ve given PensionBee permission to request pension information on your behalf. Although we’re sometimes able to request the transfer straight away, if we need any information about your pension, we’ll need to send an LOA first.

Finding out if we’ll need an LOA, and where to send it, can help to fast track your transfer. Some providers have multiple departments. So knowing the best postal or email address to use cuts out a lot of the back and forth between us and your provider.

4. Is my personal information up to date?

The personal details you’ve given PensionBee will need to match the information held by your current provider when requesting a transfer. So if you’ve moved house or got married since opening the pension, you’ll need to update this information with your old provider first.

If any details don’t match up, your provider won’t release any information about your pension. You might then need to send further paperwork and proof of identification to your provider so they can verify your identity.

5. Is my pension active?

Before transferring a pension, all personal and employer contributions will need to have finished. If the pension is still receiving contributions, these could be lost or delay the transfer. Most providers will insist on three months of no contributions before accepting a transfer request, so it’s worth checking sooner rather than later. With PensionBee you can add an active pension to your account, and as soon as you stop receiving contributions we can initiate the transfer.

6. Do I have all of my policy information?

When tracing a pension, any information you’re able to provide us at the moment of sign up is a massive help. This could be your provider’s name or a policy number. Any information you can dig out will go a long way to finding your pension and helping us complete the transfer faster.

If you need support with this, you can use the government’s Pension Tracing Service. It’s a database of pension plans that allows you to search for your employer’s name, to see if there’s a record of their pension provider.

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7. Do you accept electronic transfers?

Although paper transfer forms are less common now, some providers still use them. In fact, around 8% of the transfers we process require us to use paper forms. Not only is this bad for the environment, it slows down your transfer and carries the risk of valuable information being lost in the post too.

At PensionBee we do our part by using the electronic transfer platform Origo Options. This allows for a safer, more efficient and environmentally-friendly transfer of your pension. If your provider accepts electronic transfers, your money should be moved in no more than two weeks. However, if your old provider insists on paper transfer forms, the transfer can take up to twice as long. These delays allow your provider to earn more in fees and may even put you off transferring altogether.

8. Is there anything else I can do?

With most transfers, having your policy information and authority to act on your behalf is enough. However, some providers will have additional requirements. This is particularly common among providers who still use paper transfer forms. Finding out if you’ll need to send proof of identification or further paperwork, can ensure a smoother transfer.

Speaking to your provider both before and during the transfer means you can avoid any blockers, and ensure there aren’t any hiccups along the way.

How does consolidation work with PensionBee?

At PensionBee we’ll always keep you in the loop about your transfer and aim to make the process as simple as possible. You can sign up in just a few minutes and you’ll be assigned your very own UK-based BeeKeeper should you have any questions throughout your pension journey with us.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

The PensionBee value of honesty
At PensionBee we have five company values, and the value of ‘honesty’ is at the centre of everything we do. Here’s why...

At PensionBee we have five company values: innovation, love, simplicity, quality and honesty. Earlier in the year, I wrote about innovation and love. Now I’d like to tell you about our value of honesty. ‘Honesty’ might not be a word that is generally associated with financial services. It’s an industry for which there’s a lot of mistrust, and you could say understandably so. It was really important to us, therefore, that PensionBee put the value of honesty at the centre of everything we do. We’re asking people to trust their hard-earned money with us. The money that will help them enjoy the last chapter of their life. How are we to expect our customers to trust us if we aren’t honest with them?

Being honest with each other

We’ve worked hard to build an environment in the office that encourages honesty. Our CTO, Jonathan, recently wrote a piece on our blog all about our amazing ‘Happiness!’ program (it’s one of the reasons we won a Diversity & Inclusion Champion award at the Computing Tech Marketing & Innovation Awards last month) but in a nutshell, the program consists of all employees, right up to the founders, having regular meetings with their ‘Happiness!’ manager. We’re encouraged to answer the question of whether we’re happy honestly, and it makes a lot of sense, because if things aren’t right, we want to know, so that we can make them right. Of course, we also hear the reasons that people are happy, and that can be just as helpful in showing us when we’re on the right path.

In the spirit of transparency, our CEO, Romi, holds monthly ‘CEO Sessions’ where she talks to us about aspects of the business that we might not see in our day-to-day work lives. As an employee, being kept in touch with all the important information and big decisions being made, makes a real difference to how connected to and how involved with the company you feel. We’ve recently also started a new series called ‘Ask Me Anything’, where a member of the team will host an open lunch where anyone from the company can join and ask them questions about their job or department or a specific topic.

Another regular session we run is the ‘BeeStorm’, which I talked about in my piece on our value of innovation. The ‘BeeStorm’ is intended to give the Customer Success Team a platform to tell us where improvements can be made to the processes they’re following. Encouraging this kind of feedback not only helps us to make sure we’re always improving our systems, but it also gives that team a stronger sense of ownership over the tools they’re using. And happy employees tend to make happy customers!

Being honest with our customers

Being honest with our customers is something that we care deeply about at PensionBee, and something that we encourage from others in our industry as well. For a lot of people, pensions are a product that is shrouded in mystery, and lifting the cloak on that is central to our company mission. This mission manifests itself in several ways from being transparent about the fees we charge our customers, to publishing data about how we, and others in the industry, perform when it comes to transferring pensions.

In fact, our whole service is based on the belief that transparency in pensions is what customers need and deserve. We believe that customers should always know what’s happening with their money, which is why our customers get to see how their pension’s performing, not just once a year, but every time they log into their account. We recently became the first pension provider to adopt the Simpler Annual Statement, a two-page document that gives customers the information they really need in an easy-to-digest format. For too long, pension statements (often the only insight a customer gets into their pension) have been thick wads of paper, with so much information on them, that it’s been hard for savers to find the information that matters to them.

Honesty with our customers isn’t just a one-way street though. We want our customers to be honest with us too! We actively seek feedback from our customers all the time and the responses we get are shared with the entire team in weekly updates and in our weekly ‘Show’n’Tell’ sessions, where a portion of time is assigned to hearing some of the feedback we’ve had in the previous week. We also live-feed our Trustpilot reviews into a Slack channel that the whole company has access to, so whether the feedback is good or bad, we all get to see, in real-time, what our customers are saying about us. We have an unofficial company policy to say thank you for all feedback. Often it’s nice to hear, sometimes it isn’t, but it’s always helpful, because even if we disagree with the feedback (we rarely do!), it still tells us something about how our customers feel about our service, and that is an invaluable learning.

It’s almost impossible to build a high-quality product or to offer high-quality service, without feedback, which is especially important to us, since another of our company values is quality. I’ll tell you more about that next time.

How PensionBee’s supporting vulnerable customers
Here’s how we’re supporting vulnerable customers at PensionBee...

Money has evolved dramatically in recent years. In 2019, credit card spending overtook cash payments for the first time, and during the pandemic we saw a massive shift to digital payments as many vendors refused to accept cash altogether, favouring contactless payment methods instead. As our money and financial services industry has become increasingly digitised, scammers have become highly sophisticated, often targeting our personal details over our wallets.

Research conducted by consumer champion, Boring Money, found that a third of all investors self-identified as vulnerable to financial harm. With the cost-of-living crisis continuing into 2023, more people run the risk of falling between the cracks. Our company vision’s for everyone to feel in control of their finances so they can look forward to a happy retirement. Here’s how we’re supporting vulnerable customers at PensionBee...

Identifying vulnerability in customers

As the regulator of the UK financial services industry, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) coaches financial companies on how to deliver good practices in business and the fair treatment of consumers. According to the FCA, it’s the duty of financial institutions to protect customers from this harm: like falling for a scam, or sliding into unaffordable debt.

In the FCA’s own words: “A vulnerable customer is someone who, due to their personal circumstances, is especially susceptible to harm, particularly when a firm is not acting with appropriate levels of care.” The responsibility isn’t for vulnerable customers to advocate for themselves. Companies must work towards spotting and supporting vulnerable customers.

There are the four categories of vulnerability the FCA advises firms to watch out for:

1. Capability

Making informed decisions about your money requires you to hold the right information.


Capability characteristics that increase financial vulnerability


Insufficient knowledge or confidence in managing finances

Limited, or non-existent, digital abilities

Poor literacy and numeracy skills

Restricted access to help and support

2. Health

Making informed decisions about your money requires you to hold the right information.

Health characteristics that increase financial vulnerability


Addiction, or compulsive behaviour

Hearing or visual impairment

Mental health, or physical disability

Severe or long-term illness

3. Life events

Making informed decisions about your money requires you to hold the right information.

Life events that increase financial vulnerability


Change in finances, like redundancy

Domestic abuse or traumatic experiences

Giving or receiving caring responsibilities

Loss through bereavement or relationship breakdown

4. Resilience

Making informed decisions about your money requires you to hold the right information.

Resilience characteristics that increase financial vulnerability


Inadequate or erratic income

Limited emotional resilience

Over-indebtedness

Restricted or lack of savings

What does being a vulnerable customer mean?

As you can see, the list of characteristics that increase your vulnerability to financial harm are extensive. In all likelihood, you may have been identified by your bank or another financial services provider as a vulnerable customer at one point in your life.

This is where the FCA’s ‘Consumer Duty‘ principles come in. The Consumer Duty advises financial firms that “consumers should receive communications they can understand, products and services that meet their needs and offer fair value, and they get the customer support they need, when they need it”. Whether you realise that you’re vulnerable or not, when you communicate with your financial provider they’ll be trained to spot these characteristics and support you to the best of their ability.

How we support our vulnerable customers at PensionBee

An empathetic customer experience

As PensionBee’s COO, I’m responsible for a range of operational activities across the business, including our Customer Success and Compliance teams. To give the best customer experience, we need an empathetic and knowledgeable in-house team. Our guiding light in all communications is our company value of love. All our customers are assigned a personal BeeKeeper to give them a friendly, human experience.

Our BeeKeepers go through in-depth training on identifying vulnerability characteristics and acting with care, as part of their onboarding training program. Our Team Leaders conduct spot checks and provide regular training to ensure our customers receive the highest level of service. If a customer’s unhappy with our service, our Compliance team investigates and aims to respond within three working days after receiving the complaint.

An inclusive product design

Our CDO, Matt Loft, oversees the development of new and existing features for our entire customer journey. He’s made it his mission to embed clear accessibility and consider vulnerability across the PensionBee mobile app and website. Every interface is carefully reviewed to ensure our product design supports all of our customers.

From workshops with screen readers to understand how visually impaired customers may receive information, to focus groups and questionnaires monitoring customer interests. Using these feedback loops and tracking customer insights, our product continually adapts to better suit the evolving needs of our growing customer base.

What if I’m a vulnerable customer?

PensionBee takes your vulnerability seriously. If you’re comfortable sharing your vulnerability characteristics with your BeeKeeper, we’ll try our best to make any reasonable adjustments for you whilst maintaining strict confidentiality. We’re committed to creating a customer-centric culture that permeates all teams: from our Software Engineers improving your app interface, to your BeeKeeper keeping you in the loop on your pension transfers.

If you’re struggling right now, and you need to talk to someone, call Samaritans on 116 123. You can speak to a volunteer from Mental Health Innovations there. They’re open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. You can also text the word ‘SHOUT’ to 85258. You can do it entirely anonymously if that’s what you’d prefer. The first port of call for any mental health issues, big or small, should be your GP. They can connect you with your local NHS Mental Health Trust to support you with any sort of treatment you might need.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

4 pension innovations that could make the dashboard obsolete before it’s even here
Is the pensions dashboard becoming less and less necessary?

I’m a huge proponent of the Pensions Dashboards, however, like most in the industry, I’m getting a bit tired of waiting for the DWP to issue something of substance.

Knowing exactly the type of gremlins that lie in providers’ pension data, I don’t think the 2019 deadline is achievable and at best we are looking at 2021 for even the best-in class providers to submit their data.

Three years is a long time and rather than go on about why the dashboard should in fact be multiple dashboards and that we don’t need full coverage on day 1 - debates which have been had ad nauseum in the industry already - I thought it may be helpful to point out a couple of developments that may make the dashboard obsolete by the time it comes into production.

Bank marketplaces

Banks and data aggregators are already offering dashboard-like functionality to consumers and the ability to see one’s pension balance next to one’s current account is hugely appealing. PensionBee’s recent integration with Starling Bank, the coolest new bank on the block, shows the power of aggregated data for consumers.

Both PensionBee and Nutmeg are also available on Bud - a provider of dashboards to banks - and we have heard more pension providers are expressing interest in joining the party.

Now of course this is slightly less appealing if you have 11 or so different pensions, but there are already initiatives underway to reduce the number of pots people accumulate in the first place...

Pension follows member

A proposal to allow consumers to choose their auto-enrolment pension is gaining momentum in the industry. Indeed, pension follows member will dramatically reduce pension pot proliferation, particularly in industries where job-hopping is fairly prominent.

We at PensionBee support pension follows member because it will encourage consumer ownership of pensions and pension outcomes. But let’s be honest - not everyone will take it up because the employer’s default would still be available, well, by default.

But fortunately, consolidation at various points in time is also becoming easier...

Transfer standards

The newly issued guidance by the Transfers and Re-registration Industry Group clearly calls for a 14-day end-to-end switching guideline and while the standard is voluntary, it does sound like a register of who is and isn’t complying will be forthcoming.

PensionBee exists to make pensions simple and as the only U.K. pension company exclusively focused on consolidation, we have been very vocal in calling for an end-to-end pension switch guarantee, so we’re delighted to have played our part in getting consumer voices heard at the table.

And switching will become much more likely once we can compare our pensions...

Value for money analysis

Data suggests that over a third of consumers switch car insurance annually. Why? Because it’s easy to compare different quotes and switching is easy. Well if transfers can be completed in 2 weeks, then what we are really missing is some value for money analysis that can help a consumer determine whether they are in the right product or not.

Propelled by the work of Chris Sier to standardise cost disclosures through the Financial Conduct Authority’s Institutional Disclosure Working Group, Henry Tapper is due to launch a pension comparison tool that I ultimately expect will be adopted by the likes of MoneySuperMarket and the other aggregators - where some 13 million consumers shop for financial products annually.

So if we can already see our pensions data online and we are less and less likely to accumulate pensions as time progresses, what will be the point of the Pensions Dashboards?

As the private sector steps up, the Pensions Dashboards is becoming less and less necessary

I suspect the Pensions Dashboards will ultimately propel all of the movements and technologies described above but let’s be clear: as the private sector steps up, the pensions dashboard is becoming less and less necessary to solve the pensions mess in the country. So hurry up, Mr. Opperman, before we all beat you to it.

What should the government do about the Pensions Dashboards?
Our CEO tells us what she we would do if she were in the DWP's shoes...

I recently had the pleasure of presenting at the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) annual “Summer School”. Beyond talking about social media and pension engagement, it seems my blog on pension innovations that could make the dashboard irrelevant was quite popular. Of course we got onto talking about options for the dashboard and what would I do if I were in the DWP’s shoes. So I thought I would spell these views out publicly so that others can accept or quibble!

Please don’t build a dashboard

Just because not everyone can supply data on Day 1, does not mean that we should delay or abandon the project

There have been some desperate cries from various media outlets for the government not to “abandon” building a dashboard. Just to be clear: as far as I am aware, nobody has ever asked the government to build any sort of dashboard. The private sector is fully capable of building the technology to support people to see their pensions in one place. PensionBee is already facilitating live pension balances to our mutual Starling Bank customers and various other aggregators are rapidly following suit.

The government is poorly equipped and incentivised to maintain dashboard technology that the private sector is desperate to support. So what should the government help with?

Decide on the priorities

The objectives for the Pensions Dashboards are lofty and they include the following:

  • Reconcile people with lost pensions as much as possible (especially those who switch jobs frequently and have been auto-enrolled)
  • Help people see all their pensions in one place so they can plan for retirement
  • Create engagement around pension savings

Achieving all of the objectives is not possible because not all providers will be able to supply clean data on Day 1. But just because not everyone can supply data on Day 1, does not mean that we should delay or abandon the project. Rather, we need to achieve our priorities in order.

The obvious solution is to start with the first objective to reconcile people with “lost” pensions. These people will happily log in periodically to “find” their “lost” pensions as more providers join because it is a bit like finding free money. They do not need to see everything at once.

Decide who needs to supply data and when based on the priorities

To start with the first objective, the government should compel those who can give data to do so. These will typically be the newer auto-enrolment providers and their data will help reconcile job-switchers with their “lost” pensions. I don’t believe that DB pensions or the state pension need to be part of the launch phase – DB pensions and the State Pension are rarely if ever “lost”. In order to achieve the second objective, to help people see all their pensions in one place, the DWP should then give deadlines to those who must clean. Cleaning should not really be negotiable. Under GDPR requirements, all providers have an obligation to maintain clean customer data. It is not the customer’s problem if pension provider data is (horrifyingly) written down in excel spreadsheets. And finally, once the data is there, we can talk about ways to create engagement and set some parameters for the private sector.

In sum, I would be in favour of splitting providers into “groups”, starting with those who can supply data doing so in 2020 (let’s be ambitious, but also realistic) and staging the rest of the providers over 3 years. Providers can voluntarily choose which group they belong to, bearing in mind their choice reflects their priority to maintaining clean customer data.

Set the groundwork for the data standards, but don’t go reinventing (or in fact building) the wheel

At the end of the day pension data belongs to the consumer and the consumer should have the right to share their pension data with whomever they wish, subject to that person being responsible. This is the principle behind open banking that has required the UK’s major banks to make our data freely available to companies that hold the right permissions with the Financial Conduct Authority. To progress the technical standards behind open banking, the regulators created the Open Banking Implementation Entity (funded by the UK’s nine largest banks) to design the API specifications, security and messaging standards and guidelines for the participants. There is no reason that a similar body cannot exist for pensions.

So that’s it in my opinion. I don’t mean to trivialise what is clearly an important matter for consumers, but I do think it’s important to see the forest through the trees. So here’s to the DWP’s Feasibility Study – let’s hope it’s worth the wait.

We're celebrating 1,000 Trustpilot reviews!
Our CEO, Romi, discusses PensionBee achieving 1,000 Trustpilot reviews, and why this is an important milestone well worth celebrating.

Today I am honoured to let you know that we have achieved 1,000 Trustpilot reviews, cementing our 5-star average. Of all the milestones to celebrate, I want you to know why this one is so important to us here at PensionBee.

The fundamental thing that makes PensionBee different from all other pension providers is how much we care about our customers and giving you a fantastic experience. In 2014 we set out on a journey to help the U.K. look forward to a happy retirement by making pensions simple. To achieve this goal, we have enshrined the value of customer love in everything we do.

We don’t believe in taking shortcuts when it comes to customer service and that is why every single customer receives a personal BeeKeeper to guide them on their pension journey. However, you should know that every employee at PensionBee serves our customers in some way, and I have greatly enjoyed speaking to many of you on the phone and on livechat.

I would like to share what happens when we receive a review from you. Our entire company is immediately notified and your BeeKeeper is acknowledged. If the review is positive, great. However, if the review is negative or includes areas for improvement, our top priority is to respond, assess what went wrong and fix it. While there is little we can do about market fluctuations, rest assured that everything within our control is examined and addressed with immediate urgency.

We manage about half a billion pounds in pensions on your behalf and no doubt our biggest challenge will be to continue growing PensionBee while maintaining your satisfaction. We know there is a long way to go and lots more we can do to keep you happy. In addition to Trustpilot, we proactively seek your feedback on a weekly basis and we use your insights to inform everything from our internal processes to our future product releases.

Thank you for taking the time to tell us what you think. We are delighted to serve you!

Our current view on Pensions Dashboards
Our CEO, Romi, outlines the PensionBee position on Pensions Dashboards, ahead of joining The Pensions Dashboard Industry Delivery Group.

I’m happy to announce that today I will be joining The Pensions Dashboard Industry Delivery Group, giving consumers a louder voice in the creation of Pensions Dashboards. We’re looking forward to bringing our years of experience to the table, and we’ll be doing all we can to ensure the project is delivered successfully for the benefit of consumers.

At their foundation, our view is that the full vision of Pensions Dashboards must be delivered by two concurrent movements:

  • The creation of the Money and Pension Service’s “pension finder service”, which will effectively replace the government’s current pension finder service by providing more accurate and timely information to consumers
  • The furthering of the UK’s world-leading Open Finance system, which will extend Open Banking-like protocols to pensions, enabling consumers to share their data with trusted third-parties

Let’s start by running through some of our thoughts on the “pension finder service”.

We must deliver a pension finder service that’s fit for purpose

Above all else we believe that the pension finder service must be delivered swiftly and incrementally. Consumers cannot be kept waiting for decades for a “big bang” approach.

Sensible increments would include “year from” staging; for example all pensions established on or after 1 January, 2012 should be part of the first wave of compulsion. This rule achieves the benefit of incorporating the largest master trusts and other new providers who are most technologically prepared.

The State Pension should be included in the first wave

In addition, this approach also has the benefit of consumer familiarity, as consumers will be most able to recognise potential data gaps (rather than staging by pension scheme size, which would require consumers to be familiar with pension provider market shares).

As a result of staged compulsion, the State Pension should be included in the first wave. This should ensure that the majority of consumers have something positive to see on their first visit, and are encouraged to return. We also believe there should be no exemptions from compulsion, as the rules of exemption will be difficult for consumers to understand.

On a more technical level, the pension finder service should collect email addresses. Emails could then notify customers who opt-in to periodically check new data additions, so that they stay engaged.

Pensions Dashboards logins must use a digital ID standard

Elsewhere, Pensions Dashboards logins must use a digital ID standard that enables more than 8_personal_allowance_rate of the eligible population to log in on a first attempt. The government is currently consulting on a digital ID framework which must be adopted for the pension finder service. It would be wise for the Steering Group to develop a “Plan B” consisting of key authentication factors - name, address, national insurance number, date of birth - should the Digital ID not be available in time for a public launch.

Finally, the pension finder service should give the minimum useful information, so as not to delay the launch. This must include:

  • A policy number
  • Year-end balances
  • Charges in %
  • Charges in £ for the last 12 months
  • A link to the provider’s website where the consumer can obtain more information

This information, and in particular charges, are already consistent with the information pension providers are required to provide under current regulations.

Ultimately, the successful implementation of the pension finder is crucial to the success of any dashboard. However, it’s essential not to neglect the importance of Open Finance and data sharing.

Why Open Finance and data sharing have a big role to play

While the Pensions Dashboards will help consumers find their lost pensions, the vast majority of pensions are not lost and consumers need to be able to share their pension data safely and effectively, in predictable ways.

Many consumers are required to post their valuable financial information

As things stand, many consumers are required to post their valuable financial information around the country using “letters of authority” and “wet signatures”. These practices are inconsistent with modern behaviour and also potentially with the law. While the Money and Pension Service’s pension finder service is being enabled, so too will protocols for safe and efficient pension data sharing.

Thankfully, it is expected that Open Pensions (led by the Financial Conduct Authority’s work on Open Finance), and the pension finder service will converge over the next few years. We will support all efforts to align Open Pensions as closely as possible to Open Banking, so as to give consumers a consistent experience across financial products.

We will support all efforts to align Open Pensions as closely as possible to Open Banking

Consumers will wish to share data from the pension finder service directly from the major providers, and they should be allowed to share this data with trusted third-parties. From this lens, it is appropriate not to think of pension dashboards per se, but to think of pension dashboard services that are facilitated through data sharing.

Indeed, one does not necessarily need to display all of the data from the pension finder service in order to help a consumer and it is quite possible that data from the pension finder service will be used selectively.

For instance, if a comparison service for defined contribution pensions exists, it will not necessarily need to show all of the available information on a consumer’s public sector pensions. It is therefore important that the appropriate principles-based regulation exists, to ensure pension dashboard services are mitigating potential consumer detriment - without stifling the innovation consumers need to plan for retirement.

In our opinion, it is crucial that the major pension providers are required to electronically provide detailed pension information about their customers to trusted third-parties (as the pension finder service will only provide a minimal amount of information).

This information should include:

  • Balances
  • Charges in £ and %
  • Net contribution histories
  • Tax top up histories
  • Exit fees
  • Current Sedol / ISIN / Other investment codes
  • 5 year past performance of the relevant investment

While the ICO guidance and GDPR laws must be adhered to at all times, trusted third-parties must also be authorised and regulated to access this information by the Financial Conduct Authority, using existing permissions that enable access to banking data but delineating pensions as a separate product. It would be inconsistent with the current regulatory framework to require authorisation of banking information providers, but not of pension information providers. Stronger permissioning will also facilitate data storage, a requirement for the development of consumer-oriented services and indeed a requirement for many regulated activities.

Stronger permissioning will also facilitate data storage

Controlled testing of commercial dashboards will be essential, but it is equally important that dashboards and dashboard-associated services are allowed to evolve with consumer demand for assistance. Ultimately, if the pension industry can modernise our data sharing practices and the government can provide a pension finder that’s fit for purpose, we will have the foundations in place to deliver the full vision of the Pensions Dashboard.

The Pensions Dashboards ecosystem: protecting consumers and enabling innovation
Our CEO, Romi, outlines her thoughts on The Pensions Dashboards, and how it can deliver the safe and innovative ecosystem consumers deserve.

Pensions Dashboards have the potential to revolutionise consumers’ engagement with their pensions. By making clear where the £20 billion of lost pensions are, consumers will be empowered to take control of their money and better prepared to plan for retirement using convenient forecasting tools. Through open data, consumers will be able to integrate today’s money with tomorrow’s money, resulting in higher contributions and better retirement outcomes.

However, consumer innovation must be delivered responsibly and Pensions Dashboards will only thrive in an environment that provides the appropriate protection for consumers.

Following today’s publication of the Pension Schemes Bill, below are my thoughts on how to deliver the safe and innovative ecosystem consumers deserve.

Enable safe data sharing

The government has been clear that multiple Pensions Dashboards services will exist from the outset and therefore safe data sharing must be enabled from day one. The consumer owns their data and they will wish to share it. It is important that sharing is only permissible with trusted, authorised and regulated third parties. It is a myth that delaying so-called “commercial dashboards” will prevent the free flow of data. On the contrary, if we fail to consider, define and communicate data sharing protocols and expectations with consumers, any scammer will be legally allowed to scrape the data. Scammers thrive in the grey zone.

Appropriate authorisation

The Financial Conduct Authority has been tasked with defining the appropriate authorisation mechanisms. It would be a stark anomaly and an unprecedented regulatory arbitrage to require specific regulations to access banking data through Open Banking while allowing any form of regulated entity to access pension data. This loophole should not be allowed to exist and the Financial Conduct Authority should begin to engage on the matter with immediate urgency so as not to delay the launch of public dashboards.

Sufficient information

Appropriate information must be displayed on the dashboards to allow consumers to begin the process of pension planning. Our view is that the same information available on Simpler Annual Statements, with the addition of charges displayed in £ and %, will help consumers make the right decisions. Transparency is key and there should be no quibbles from the incumbents, as there are already regulations requiring them to make this information available.

Stronger reforms of non-workplace pensions

After seeing their pension information, consumers will wish to take control of their money and consolidation may well be an appropriate choice. Pensions Dashboards can and should exist in a world of well-governed defaults. The Financial Conduct Authority is currently consulting on defaults in non-workplace pensions. Mandating a single, well-governed, charge-capped default for each and every pension provider will help prevent and mitigate the very reasonable concern that consumers will exchange good workplace pensions for inferior and expensive products.

PensionBee writes to the Director of Corporate Governance at Legal & General
Our CEO, Romi Savova, writes an open letter to Sacha Sadan, Director of Corporate Governance at Legal & General.

Dear Sacha,

Thank you for taking the time to meet regarding Shell, a key holding in the Future World Plan, of which PensionBee, through its customers, represents one of the largest holdings.

We were delighted to onboard the Future World Plan in 2017, because as a company, we believe it is important to change the world by making your voice heard. I believe we can achieve so much more through activism than through pure divestment. I know that Legal & General also believes in the purpose of the plan to build a better future world.

The strength of the Future World Plan is through its engagement and through pressure to change the behaviour of major global companies, including the world’s biggest polluters. Consequently, we have celebrated in the successes of the plan, including Shell’s commitment to link carbon emissions to executive pay in 2018 and the divestment of ExxonMobil when it failed to engage with investors in June 2019.

However, I have recently become concerned about the ongoing inclusion of Shell in the top 10 holdings of the Future World Plan. If there is one thing I have learned over the last five years, it is to always listen to our customers and their concerns. While Shell has made some progress in the right direction, our customers are asking us on a daily basis whether Shell’s business model is sufficiently transitioning to a low carbon economy to warrant continued inclusion in this responsible investment plan.

The Guardian has recently reported that Shell is independently forecast to increase its carbon emissions by 38% by 2030, by increasing its crude oil production by more than half and its gas production by over a quarter. At the same time, it is widely understood that major oil companies must cut their carbon emissions by 35% in order to achieve the goals of the Paris Agreement. This is a puzzling situation and one that is compounded by Shell’s refusal to disclose its future production schedule and whether it is indeed on track to meet its global obligations.

I would be grateful if you could share your insights on this matter and whether you continue to believe that Shell will do the right thing by our planet. I would also be grateful if you could outline the tangible next steps we and our customers should expect from Shell that will demonstrate its commitment to the Paris Agreement and specifically to reducing carbon emissions as required.

In the interest of making sure our customers know their voice is being heard, I will publish this letter on Friday.

Kind regards,

Romi Savova

Chief Executive Officer of PensionBee

Celebrating 5 years of PensionBee
Our CEO, Romi, and our CTO, Jonathan, look back over everything that's happened at PensionBee over the past five years.

What a whirlwind! It’s been five years this week since PensionBee was born. It’s fair to say that this milestone has crept up on us rather quickly. We’ve enjoyed taking a look back through the PensionBee archives to see what’s been going on.

First and foremost, we have to thank our fabulous customers - who’ve been signing up in their thousands - and who trust us to make pensions simple and engaging. We’ve frequently chosen to feature our customers in our adverts, and it’s been great to bring their stories to a wider audience in the TV ads we launched this year. For those of you who haven’t seen our TV ads yet, you can hear from Tony and Lucille in these YouTube videos.

First and foremost, we have to thank our fabulous customers

Another huge thank you has to go to the equally wonderful PensionBee team. Helping our customers look forward to a happy retirement is the motivation to get up every day and do what they do, and we think they’ve been doing a damn fine job of it. We’re so proud of the team (there’s over 100 of us now!), and the incredible diversity they bring to PensionBee. Our team have a raft of secret lives, from Glastonbury rockstar (Matt, our Head of Design), to seafood entrepreneur (Nasrin, from our A-team), to political activist (Bat, in our tech team) and many more. We’ve built a lovely supportive culture based around our values that binds us together. Our Head of Operations, Tess, has been writing a blog series this year diving into each of the values and what it means to us.

2019 has been a big year in itself - we’ve launched three new pension plans, broke through _higher_rate_personal_savings_allowance million of assets under administration, and earned our 1,000th Trustpilot review, not to mention picking up a bevvy of awards. We’ve also made a whole raft of product improvements, including a new retirement planner, speeding up your tax top ups and withdrawals, and we became the first pension provider to adopt the new Simpler Annual Statement.

A great moment was when Romi put her headset on and became a BeeKeeper for a week in January.

Our CEO Romi answering a phone

This not only helped out the team during a busy time, but was a great experience talking to customers about their issues and learning how the PensionBee front line has changed.

We’ve also been absolutely delighted to welcome Michelle Cracknell onto our board of directors. Michelle joins us from The Pensions Advisory Service, and brings a wealth of experience understanding the problems savers face when it comes to their pensions.

An industry in transition

Looking back to when we started in 2014, it feels almost like a different time in the pensions industry. For one thing, the Pension Freedoms that allowed you to take money out of a pension from the age of 55 were not due to become active until the following April. Auto-Enrolment into workplace pensions had started, but had not reached past the larger employers. 2015 was arguably when UK savers had several reasons for taking an interest in their pensions for the first time in a long time.

The transfer process was often long, arduous and paper-based

This is when the problems in exerting consumer choice in pensions came to the fore: complex, expensive products, with high (and often hidden) management fees; and when you did find a product you liked, the transfer process was often long, arduous and paper-based. It’s no surprise that PensionBee’s first service - finding and combining your old pensions into a new, online plan - remains our most popular.

So what’s changed in that picture in five years? The pensions industry is changing, partly driven by the regulators mandating changes that help consumers, and partly by consumers moving to better products. The Pensions Dashboard is one of the major headlines, promising to centralise information about all your pension savings. We think that will make a huge difference, but it’s still a few years away (Romi’s recent appointment to the Steering Group will surely help…).

In the meantime, 2018’s Open Banking has welcomed pensions under its wider Open Finance umbrella, and the introduction of GDPR in the same year is a further push towards digitisation and a consumer-centred business. Fees have come down a lot - the regulator introducing a 0.75% fee cap on the default funds of Auto-Enrolment pensions in 2015 has had a big impact on people’s expectations, and many other schemes have brought costs down in an effort to win over newly engaged savers.

There’s still a long way to go to make the industry digital by default

We’ve seen increased adoption of digital pension transfers, and an improvement in the average transfer time (remember it used to take longer to transfer a pension than to travel to Mars?). But in a world where PensionBee needs four robots to sign letters with a fountain pen in order to save our customers the hassle, there’s still a long way to go to make the industry digital by default.

Any story of the last five years in the pension industry would not be complete without mentioning the rise in interest in the Environmental, Social and Governance (ESG) sector of investment. ESG has grown from nowhere in the mid 2000s to be a major investment category, and the increasing global awareness of climate change is fueling further growth. PensionBee introduced the Future World Plan in 2017 in response to rising demand for a greener pension. We continue to hear demands for greater transparency and social impact, and we’re excited about the direction this is going and how we can help our customers use their savings to make an impact.

So, what’s next?

It seems appropriate to close by thinking about the next five years - what will pensions feel like by 2024? We know there are some significant challenges here - the average pension is still a world away from the slick, modern financial services we’ve all become accustomed to on our phone apps and online. There is a long way to go to deliver real transparency in fees and investments. But we’re really excited by the prospect of being able to lead the charge here, and we’re grateful to all our customers for giving us the honest feedback we need to understand what you need.

On that note, we’ve had a lot of those customers tell us that when it comes to taking money out of a pension, it still feels clunky and old-fashioned. So we asked them to tell us what a pension would be like if it were as easy to use as a bank account, we listened, and then we got building. Stay tuned in 2020…

To all our customers, the wonderful PensionBee team and the investors and supporters who have got us through the ups and downs of the last five years - a huge thank you and here’s to the next!

Thank you, from Jonathan and Romi.

Jonathan and Romi sat in front of the PensionBee logo

The next step in our journey
This Saturday, 14 November, we were delighted to share our exciting news that PensionBee is seeking a listing on the London Stock Exchange.

This Saturday, 14 November, we were delighted to share our exciting news that PensionBee is seeking a listing on the London Stock Exchange.

A listing is the natural next step in our development, and we are very excited by the potential that comes with being a public company. It will allow us to vigorously keep pursuing our vision: to live in a world where everyone can look forward to a happy retirement.

As with any significant event in the company’s development, we aim to keep our customers close on the journey.

Why are we exploring a listing of PensionBee?

PensionBee has always envisaged making the transition from being a private company to a public one. A listing on the London Stock Exchange will increase the profile of PensionBee and enable us to access capital, which we will invest in continuing to grow the business. Through the public listing process itself, we will reach even more people with our transformative personal pension.

As a company that maintains the highest standards of governance, including a Board that consists of predominantly independent directors, we already meet many of the stringent requirements placed on public companies. PensionBee recently announced the appointment of Mary Francis CBE as our Senior Independent Director. Mary’s impressive background includes non-executive roles at the Bank of England and Barclays among many other publicly listed companies. Our Chairman, Mark Wood CBE, has been with the business for many years.

PensionBee’s growth to date has been stellar. With over £1.2 billion in assets under administration on behalf of over 65,000 invested customers as well as the pipeline of new pension assets we expect from our 115,000 active customers, we know we are on track to helping millions of people achieve the retirement they want.

How and when will PensionBee list?

PensionBee is exploring a listing on the High Growth Segment of the London Stock Exchange’s Main Market. The High Growth Segment is exclusively designed for rapidly growing companies. The only British company to have listed there is Just Eat, and we hope that we spark a strong trend of exciting companies deciding to take advantage of the High Growth Segment. We’ve been really encouraged and welcome the support we have received from the London Stock Exchange so far. While we considered alternative venues, PensionBee is ultimately a British company and we will be proud to be a London listed company.

We are currently in the preparatory phases of planning and once this phase is finalised, it is likely that the listing is completed in the next 12-18 months, market conditions permitting.

What does a listing mean for our customers?

It’s “business as usual” at PensionBee and we continue to work hard at developing and delivering the UK’s most loved pension product. To that end, we have a robust plan of new feature launches, including most recently our Fossil Fuel Free Plan, created specifically following requests from our customers.

Of course, with such a significant corporate milestone underway and our unmatched commitment to PensionBee savers, we will explore offering our customers an opportunity to participate in the listing itself. We will share more information on this process at the appropriate time, but we want to be clear that a company built for our customers can also be owned by our customers.

Stay safe and wish you all a wonderful week ahead.

Becoming a publicly listed company
On Monday 26 April we were delighted to be admitted to the High Growth Segment of the Main Market of the London Stock Exchange.

Today, on Monday 26 April, we were delighted to be admitted to the High Growth Segment of the Main Market of the London Stock Exchange (PBEE). The High Growth Segment is exclusively designed for rapidly growing companies, such as PensionBee, to raise capital and to use the public market as a platform for future growth.

Back in November we announced our desire to become a public company, however the journey to this special moment truly started back in 2014 when PensionBee was founded as a result of my own poor pension experience. Becoming a publicly listed company has long been part of our strategy to be the best universal online pension provider, and we’re extremely proud to have reached this significant milestone.

Our IPO marks the culmination of seven years of hard work, and I’d like to thank my dedicated and talented colleagues for not only making this happen, but for the dedication they show to helping our customers each and every day.

I’d also like to thank our wonderful customers who are at the heart of all we do. We were thrilled that so many of you wanted to take part in this phase of our growth and applied for shares in our customer offer. We warmly welcome all of our new investors as important stakeholders in our business.

What happens next?

While it’s “business as usual” at PensionBee, our IPO will allow us to continue to grow rapidly and innovate. In practice, this means that the money we’ve raised will be used to fuel advertising and marketing initiatives so that we can help millions of people look forward to a happy retirement.

Our growth to date has been significant. As at 31 March 2021, PensionBee counted 137,000 active customers from 18-80 years of age, with c.£1.65 billion in assets under administration.

We’ll also be investing in our technology platform capabilities and enhancing our product. We have lots of new features and product innovations on our roadmap, and are excited to share them with you in due course.

Our commitment is, and always will be, to put our customers first, and we’ll continue using our voice to make positive changes in the pensions industry.

Today’s achievement is testament to our excellent track record and the strength of the opportunity that lies ahead. We look forward to thriving as a public company and embarking on the next step of our journey.

Fast fashion goes out of style for female pension savers
Our CEO, Romi Savova, discusses how socially conscious women are turning their back on the fast fashion industry.

Fast fashion retailers have made their name by offering shoppers a chance to keep up with the latest trends, at the lowest possible prices. Whether it be traditional high-street staples, such as Primark, or the new wave of online retailers, such as boohoo, the fast fashion industry has spent decades courting young female customers. Yet it seems the love affair is over, as young socially conscious women are turning their back on the industry.

At PensionBee, we believe in regularly surveying our customers to ensure our product continues to be aligned with the changing investment expectations of British savers. So earlier this year, we asked our customers their views on various industries their pensions were invested in.

We discovered that a majority of our customers have a strong distrust of the fast fashion industry. Not only do they believe it’s detrimental to society, but they don’t want to invest in fast fashion companies via their pension. This view was most prominent among female customers aged 30 and under (82%) despite the industry’s clear focus on this demographic.

So what’s driven this significant shift in opinion? Well increased education and understanding around the damage caused by unsustainable industries for one. A 2019 House of Commons report revealed that global textile production produces an estimated 1.2 billion tonnes of CO2 equivalent per year - more than international aviation and maritime shipping combined. The global fashion industry is also said to consume an estimated 79 billion cubic metres of fresh water annually. With the UK, sending an estimated £140 million worth of clothing to landfill each year.

These shocking statistics certainly seem to underpin this growing interest in sustainable living, and demand for sustainable investment options to match. Additional PensionBee research revealed that 94% of adults are taking steps to live more sustainable lifestyles - whether this be eating less meat, recycling or taking public transport. But even more encouragingly, this view is being widely applied to pension saving, with almost half of respondents (_scot_top_rate) preferring that their pension be invested sustainably to help drive positive change. In addition, 29% reported that they would change where their pensions are invested if it was unsustainable, and almost a quarter (24%) of young people (aged 18-34) felt so strongly that they would actively encourage others to leave that pension fund.

The industry’s association with labour exploitation in unsafe working conditions, is another component of its negative relationship with pension savers. PensionBee’s data shows that savers across all age groups and genders prioritise action on companies that treat workers unfairly, with 33% wishing to divest from companies that don’t pay the Living Wage to all of their workers.

So undoubtedly there’s a united desire to live more sustainably, with individuals making conscious decisions in their everyday lives to achieve this. More and more savers are beginning to recognise their investment power to transform the world they live in - for the better of the planet, society and their retirement.

The message from savers is loud and clear. They want fair and sustainable businesses in their pensions who will offer positive contributions for society, and subsequently provide longer-term returns.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

How can we improve the environment for female entrepreneurs in the UK?
In the UK, only one in three entrepreneurs are women and while there is a growing recognition that disparities exist between male and female entrepreneurs, it is a problem that has been going on far too long.

Despite pensions being one of the most complicated financial products to engage with, the most common question I get asked as the CEO of PensionBee is not to do with pensions, but instead my experience as a female founder.

In the UK, only one in three entrepreneurs are women and while there is a growing recognition that disparities exist between male and female entrepreneurs, it is a problem that has been going on far too long, preventing the UK economy from achieving approximately £250bn in growth.

When you look at the number of female CEOs of listed companies over the years, the situation is dire and progress has been unforgivably slow. Women do not lack the ability or desire to start and grow their own businesses, but yet they all face the same obstacle - funding. The Rose Review of Female Entrepreneurship found that female-led businesses receive less funding than businesses led by men at ‘every stage of the journey’.

This is a complex problem where, on average, women launch businesses with less capital than men and are likely to have less access to funding options as well as sponsors, mentors or professional support. In addition, venture capital (VC) funding is disproportionately invested by male investors into businesses led by men, accounting for female founders receiving less than 1% of all VC funding. Ultimately, this pattern leaves female founders starved of capital during critical points such as starting and scaling their business, meaning the circle of exclusion continues.

Recently, I was invited to an MP’s dinner to discuss how we can improve the environment for female entrepreneurs in the UK. There’s been a lot of talk about wanting to fix things, but this needs to translate into real figures. I strongly believe the only way to achieve true gender parity is to set targets now.

The Financial Conduct Authority recently mandated that listed companies have to disclose targets on the representation of women and ethnic minorities on their board and executive management, making it easier for investors to see the diversity of their senior leadership team. If a company cannot meet these targets, they need to explain why. I gladly welcome these new requirements, and would like to see them go even further. It’s time for private markets and large VC funds to face the same demands, disclosing diversity ratios annually in their partnerships and portfolios.

Similarly, while the government recently announced the launch of its new taskforce, dedicated to boosting the number of women starting fast-growing companies, funding beyond specific ‘female schemes’ has often been unfairly distributed. It was reported that just over 1% of all funding from the Future Fund - the government’s start-up rescue package during the pandemic - went to teams led by women. In comparison, around _basic_rate went to companies led entirely by men and the remainder was for those with mixed gender teams. If we are to truly tackle the funding barrier, government funding programs need to lead by example.

Finally, not only should pay gap reporting be a mandatory ask for any company operating in the UK, but public targets should also be necessary for all reporting companies. The gender pay gap is almost exclusively framed as an issue women should be solving themselves, and while there are actions women can take to fight the cause, solely placing the burden on the recipient of the problem is neither effective, nor fair. Equal pay for equal work is fundamentally the best way to ensure that we can build a strong pipeline of female talent in our economy, while public targets will help ensure a level playing field for future generations of female entrepreneurs.

What you need to know about pensions right now
Our CEO, Romi Savova, discusses what savers need to know in an uncertain pension environment.

Pensions have been in the news a lot lately. This is a time of great national anxiety and retirement worries can become especially pronounced when we witness economic turmoil and disruption around us. I’ve had the opportunity to discuss the latest developments with some of our customers and thought I’d share my thoughts here in case they’re useful to others. In sum, this has been a rocky time in financial markets, but there are opportunities for savers to enhance their future retirement readiness and strategies to help mitigate some of the negative effects of the external economic environment on pension pots today.

First of all, let me mention that the majority of newsflow at the moment is focused on defined benefit pensions, which reflect the promise of an employer to pay a final salary to former employees. Because of an array of accounting rules and associated investment strategies, many of these pension schemes have engaged in complex derivatives that are generating a need for them to sell assets, such as bonds and equities, in order to meet the collateral calls of their trading counterparties. The Bank of England has had to support pension funds by buying these assets. In short, while the situation sounds precarious and indeed may be for some of the institutions involved, the current consensus view is that there is little additional risk to the actual pensions that pensioners are receiving or may receive because ultimately the promise of the employer is intact and even if the employer’s promise falters, the Pension Protection Fund stands ready to step in.

While there is little direct impact on defined contribution pensions, such as the PensionBee Personal Pension, financial markets are interlinked and the chaos in the defined benefit pensions market has rattled global capital markets, which do indeed affect defined contribution pensions. This year has been particularly challenging for equities, bonds and the pound owing to interest rate tightening and the war in Ukraine, all of which would have contributed to declining pension balances with all pension providers in the country. Indeed, the only way to have avoided a balance drop this year would have been to invest in some combination of cash and commodities, an unlikely and highly risky approach to pension investment. Commodities are known to be volatile investments and cash itself would likely have had a negative real return after the effects of persistently high inflation in 2022. While poor pension performance across the whole country is likely to be of little consolation to those nearing retirement, it’s important to recognise that these types of economic environments, and their consequent impact on pensions, generally cannot be avoided. On the contrary, they’re considered to be a part of pension investments and one of the reasons why pensions have long-term returns of about 7% per year. Eventually markets will recover.

So given the current situation, what can and should you do? Well that depends. If you’re far from retirement and still mid-career, generally speaking, the accepted approach is to ride it out. If you’re closer to retirement and can even withdraw your pension, you may be wondering whether it’s better to simply take your pension money out and put it in the bank, thereby avoiding the losses of any additional market drops. That is usually not a good idea because you will ‘lock in’ your loss and miss out on the eventual market recovery. If you can wait until the recovery, your pension may be better served. You may also wonder whether you should switch plans, perhaps moving to a cash-like, lower risk plan. Again, this is a personal decision, but it’s important to consider that a loss is likely to be locked in and a lower risk plan will usually come with lower returns (that is why it’s a lower risk plan). If you must withdraw from your pension plan, it’s considered good practice to withdraw as little as possible so as to leave as much invested to take advantage of the eventual recovery. In the meantime, it’s important to be aware that markets could fall further, so you must be comfortable with your decision.

Finally, you should consider whether you can increase your pension contributions. It may seem counterintuitive, but in periods of downturn markets are often referred to as being ‘on sale’. Because markets tend to recover over the long-term, this may be an opportunity to invest in your retirement while prices are low and take advantage of the subsequent recovery. How long that may take is still unknown, but bear markets do occur throughout history and you can consider some analysis on averages and extremes.

Pension decisions are personal and this commentary should not be regarded as advice, but it’s in line with the guidance provided to pension companies by the Financial Conduct Authority during times of downturn. Take the time to think about which approach works best for you and to map out a financial plan that matches your expenditure, your opportunity to save and your pension withdrawals (if you’re able to make them). If you are over 50, speak to Pension Wise. As always, we at PensionBee are here to support our customers.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

Our journey to one million Registered Customers
Our CEO, Romi Savova, discusses PensionBee's journey to a million Registered Customers.

Back in 2014 when I founded PensionBee, after a negative experience trying to move my own pension after changing jobs, the pensions industry was a mess. Archaic systems, excessive fees, and complex paperwork were the ‘norm’. For some providers they still are, even eight years later.

Our mission’s to make pensions simple so everyone can save for a happy retirement, and we’ve been laser-focused on that goal ever since. Reaching the milestone of one million Registered Customers is quite an achievement, which wouldn’t have been possible without the ongoing support and trust of our wonderful customers.

We’re listening to our eco conscious savers like Hannah

Image of Hannah

Hannah, PensionBee customer since 2020.

Regularly surveying our customers and championing their voices in the pensions industry is a key part of PensionBee’s work. So when in early 2020 customers in the Future World Plan began sharing their concerns about climate change with us, we welcomed their feedback. In response we made it our mission to build a pension that balances saving for retirement while excluding fossil fuel producers, launching our Fossil Fuel Free Plan in December 2020. It invests in over 1,400 global companies and is one of the first mainstream funds of its kind to completely exclude firms with proven or probable reserves of oil, gas or coal, as well as tobacco companies, manufacturers of controversial weapons and persistent violators of the UN Global Compact.

In July 2021, we invited customers in the plan to share their views again on the current exclusion policy and learned that most expressed a strong interest in developing the impact of th addressing the world’s great social and environmental problems, allowing savers to use their pensions to invest in companies that have measurable, positive environmental and/or social outcomes.

We’re proud to champion sustainable investing as the future of engagement in pensions, and wholeheartedly believe that everyone should have the optie plan further. In response, we again scoured the market for a suitable product and couldn’t find one. Designed in collaboration with BlackRock, our new Impact Plan invests exclusively in companieson to use their investment for good - transforming the planet, society and their retirement for the better.

We’re innovating for our retired customers like Andrew

Image of Andrew

Andrew, PensionBee customer since 2019.

We’re constantly innovating and setting new standards of transparency and convenience in an industry that hasn’t adapted with advances in technology and consumer behaviour in decades. We’ve found a way to connect with a generation that has long been forgotten by the legacy providers, by creating a product that gives people a sense of optimism about their future, as they know they are saving regularly for the retirement they expect and deserve.

According to the Pensions and Lifetime Savings Association (PLSA), 77% of savers don’t know how much they’ll need in retirement. In 2018 we became the first pension provider to utilise Open Banking, enabling customers to see their complete financial position, with their live pension balance displayed alongside their live current account balance in some of the UK’s most popular money management apps.

As over 69% of our invested customers have installed our mobile app, we’ve made several updates to make it even easier to manage your retirement income from your phone. These include our 60-second ‘Easy bank transfer‘ contribution feature, personalised tax codes for withdrawing customers and a highly detailed transfer tracker.

Earlier this year we were excited to bring the withdrawal feature to our mobile app. When the time comes to start withdrawing from your pension it should be simple and stress-free. That’s why this year, we’ve launched our regular withdrawals feature to do just that. Customers like Andrew can now request a withdrawal so that they can receive a monthly payment on a selected date, without needing to make a request each month.

We’re simplifying pensions for our self-employed customers like Mary

Image of Mary

Mary, PensionBee customer since 2021.

The self-employed have long been underserved by the pensions industry and without the benefits of Auto-Enrolment, this group is significantly disadvantaged when it comes to saving for retirement. Just 16% of self-employed workers pay into a pension, causing millions to retire without adequate savings.

In January 2021, we launched a flexible product for self-employed customers, enabling them to start a new pension with no minimum contributions. Self-employed customers can make one-off or regular contributions via bank transfer online or via the PensionBee app, from personal or business bank accounts, as a sole trader or a limited company respectively.

We’re championing the needs of our customers

Image of Zahid

Zahid, PensionBee customer since 2021.

We put our customers at the heart of everything we do. Now, with more than a million Registered Customers putting their trust in us and over £3 billion in Assets under Administration from our Invested Customers, we’re continuing to champion their calls for a simpler, accessible pension landscape.

The industry urgently needs to innovate so that consumers can enjoy the same basic switching rights, as seen in other essential services and utilities. Legislating for a 10-day pension switch guarantee is an essential next step to help build trust and drive better engagement with pension saving, particularly in today’s tough economic climate.

In this day and age, no consumer should be prevented from switching pension providers due to lengthy transfer times from outdated paper processes. The technology to simplify pension saving exists, and all providers must utilise it, so that everyone can take charge of their pension savings and look forward to a happy retirement.

We’re very proud of our work empowering savers to take control of their finances. We look forward to continuing to listen to the needs of our customers, to championing their voices. We’re here to help savers take control of their savings with the introduction of new tools, uniquely designed to help navigate high inflation and complicated tax rules, to help them better plan their retirement savings.

We’re campaigning for a better pensions industry for everyone. We look forward to working with the government, the industry and all stakeholders to ensure that the pensions industry continues to evolve to meet the changing needs and desires of consumers. As this milestone shows, consumers are aching for a pension industry that works for them.

Notes

1. Registered Customers are PensionBee customers who have started the sign up process and have submitted at least a name and an email address.

2. Invested Customers are customers with an account that holds pension assets in PensionBee plans.

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E18: How to not run out of money in retirement with Mark Jones, Faith Archer and Martin Parzonka

26
Jun 2023

The following’s a transcript of our monthly podcast, The Pension Confident Podcast. Listen to episode 18 here, watch on YouTube, or scroll on to read the conversation.

PHILIPPA: Welcome to The Pension Confident Podcast with me; Philippa Lamb. Now, back in episode 11, we talked about preparing for a happy retirement. This month, we’re going to talk about spending rather than saving. What’s the best way to manage your money once you retire? And how do you make sure you don’t run out?

Picture the scene: you’ve been saving into your pension for years. Finally, the day has dawned and you’re there, you’re retiring. But there’s a cloud or two on your horizon. You don’t know the smartest way to start withdrawing your retirement cash and you don’t know how long you need to make it last. So to run through everything you need to think about when you start withdrawing a pension, I’m joined by three expert guests. Mark Jones is Product Director at Legal & General Retail. Hi Mark.

MARK: Hi.

PHILIPPA: Next, we have a returning guest and a good friend of the podcast, Financial Journalist and Founder of Much More With Less; Faith Archer. Nice to see you again Faith.

FAITH: Hello, good to be back.

PHILIPPA: And also back for another appearance, PensionBee’s Head of Product; Martin Parzonka. Hi Martin.

MARTIN: Hi. Good to be back as well.

PHILIPPA: As usual, before we start, please do remember that anything discussed on this podcast should not be regarded as financial advice and when investing your capital is at risk.

So everyone, it’s a big day when you retire. I know we’re not there yet. But after all those years of working and saving, it feels like it’s going to be a day to celebrate. Have you ever thought about what you might do the day it happens?

FAITH: You see, I think I’m not entirely sure when I’m going to retire. Because I’m a freelancer, I think I’m envisaging a much more phased retirement, so I might switch to working part-time rather than full-time.

PHILIPPA: So there won’t be that one day?

FAITH: Maybe there will be. Maybe on the submission of that Iast article. I think for me, going out for a big lunch because I wouldn’t normally do that on a working day. That’s something I’d look forward to.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, that’s a nice idea.

MARTIN: I think that rings true. I don’t really see retirement happening because we’re all gonna have to work a bit longer, right? When I quit, or ‘mini-retired’ from my career back in Australia, the first thing I did was sleep in, that was it.

PHILIPPA: We can all identify with that.

MARK: Perhaps I’m a little closer. So I’ve thought about it a little bit. I’m a natural optimist. So, I have this wonderful idea that my retirement will coincide with Wales playing at the Rugby World Cup, and I’ll go out there and watch them lift it for the first time.

PHILIPPA: That’s obviously going to happen as well.

MARK: Absolutely, guaranteed.

PHILIPPA: I hope it does. It’s gonna be a big disappointment otherwise.

A lot of us are just thinking about retiring sooner, aren’t we? Since the pandemic, the number of people in their 50s and 60s who aren’t working has gone up by over a quarter of a million. And as I understand it, for more than half of them, that’s because they’ve decided to retire. So, we do all need to think a bit about when we might stop working. But it’s this question about predicting how long we’re going to live? If you don’t know that, how do you know how much to spend and when?

MARTIN: You can predict it. There’s a thing called death-clock.org on the internet, you can plug in some details. I’ve got about 42 years left, according to that.

PHILIPPA: Oh, that’s so grim!

FAITH: Yeah, well I must admit, I hadn’t heard of the death clock. I just went to the boring old Office for National Statistics. I’m 52, so it reckons my average life expectancy is 87. But, I’ve got a one in four chance of living to 95, or a one in 10 chance of living to 99. I don’t particularly want to get to 87 and realise, ‘oops, I’ve run out of money’. So I’m basically planning, just assuming that I’m going to live to 100. That’s the basis I’m looking at. It’s a lot of years ahead to be planning for.

MARK: It absolutely is. I’m an Actuary by trade, we create some of these numbers.

PHILIPPA: Death clock’s all about people like you then!

MARK: I mean, some people define Actuaries as those who know when you’re going to die or make sure people are dead on time and all those horrendous ideas. But it only works on maths, as you say. It’s all proportions, it’s all percentages. So no one knows how long they’re going to live for. And more importantly, though you run the risk of running out of money, there’s also a risk of not spending it and enjoying it. So it’s a really big decision, whichever way you look at it.

MARTIN: That’s a really good point. I think using 100, it’s an easy number to remember. So, planning for death at 100 makes sense for a lot of people. Like you said Mark, people may not spend and enjoy their money, but I guess that’s also part of legacy planning, right? You might think about how much you want to leave to people when you do move on. So there’s a lot of things to take into account.

PHILIPPA: Well, there are because if you’re looking at another 10 years, beyond what you might actually live. I mean, that’s a substantial reduction in what you’ll spend every year, isn’t it?

MARTIN: Yeah, it is.

MARK: And it depends how much you want to spend. Most people have big plans when they retire and they assume they’ll be spending less as they get older. Then potentially, they may want to think about long-term care of some variety at the back end. So it’s possible that your spending potentially goes back up.

MARTIN: People don’t think about how much they have to spend on care later in life. I reckon that’s gonna be a miss for a lot of people. Humans have an optimistic bias naturally, right? And they forget about the bad stuff that happens. I’m going to need someone to look after me when I get to that age, potentially. That’s why it’s important to take care of yourself now. But I think there‘s a gap for people thinking about that and financial products to suit longer-term health care.

HOW TO ACCESS YOUR PENSION MONEY

PHILIPPA: Okay, so we definitely need to think about this, as we’ve just established. But Faith, you can’t just take your pension money when you feel like it. So can you just remind us what the rules are?

FAITH: Well, to be fair, in the brave new world of pension freedoms, if you’ve got a defined contribution pension, you can take the money when you reach the age of 55 (rising to 57 from 2028). But, I wouldn’t necessarily recommend you do that. Because I think what a lot of people forget is that your pension isn’t exactly the same as a savings account. You can only take _corporation_tax of your pension savings out tax-free. The rest’s taxable. So if you’ve decided, ‘right, I’m going to take that whole lot out in one year’, it could push you up the tax brackets, so you’d pay far more in income tax than you need to. Than if, for example, you’d spread your withdrawals over several years.

PHILIPPA: Now, there are various ways you can start taking that money when you retire. Should we kick off by explaining what they are and how they work? And then I would like to take a look at the pros and cons of those. So Mark, should we start with annuities? Shall we just say what an annuity is? It’s a financial product, you buy it, when you retire?

MARK: You buy it when you retire. People get concerned about annuities. They think they’re very complicated. But in the simplest terms - you have a lump sum you pay and for that lump sum, you’re told you’ll get an amount of money until you die. Whatever happens to you, whatever happens to your health, whatever happens to the economy, whatever happens in the world, it’s an absolute guarantee of a fixed amount of money that carries on.

There are options that you have. So, you can have it increasing. You can have it so it’s guaranteed to last a number of years, even if you die early. You can have it so it goes to a spouse when you die. All these are elements that’ll impact the price. So, you’ll get a little less each month. But more important than anything else is the really simple idea of - you pay this amount of money that you know and you get this amount of money that you know until you die.

PHILIPPA: So Faith, what’s drawdown? How’s it different from an annuity?

FAITH: With an annuity, you hand over a big lump sum in exchange for guaranteed income. With drawdown, you hang on to your money. So it stays invested in the stock market and then you have the freedom to decide how much you withdraw and when. That means you benefit from growth, but potentially there’s that risk that if you spend too much, you could run out of money.

PHILIPPA: Okay. Pros and cons to choosing?

FAITH: I think for me, one of the big pros about an annuity’s peace of mind. You know what’s gonna happen, you’ve handed over your lump sum and you know your income isn’t going to run out. Unless you choose an annuity that only lasts for a certain number of years, it’s going to continue for as long as you live. I guess the good news is that annuity rates are linked to interest rates, we’ve seen interest rates increasing. So now you get more income than you used to.

PHILIPPA: Yes, because for a long time annuities haven’t looked like a very great deal haven’t they? Because interest rates had been so low. But they are really healthy now.

FAITH: They’re looking more healthy, but still, if you go for the drawdown option - where you leave your money invested and choose how much you take out and when, you’re the one that benefits from any investment growth, if you’re being optimistic. You hope the stock market will continue rising, that your fund will grow, and if you don’t gouge enormous sums out of it, that the money will last you.

So it gives you a lot more flexibility and a lot more control. With an annuity, because you know what you’re getting, there’s no flexibility if you have a phased retirement. So if you take out an annuity while you’re still working, you might end up paying more tax. With drawdown, you’d have the flexibility to say, ‘you know what, I’m just going to take small sums when I’m working part-time, and then I’ll ramp up and take a bit more later on’.

MARK: And the other option, of course, is you don’t have to do one or the other. One of the things that’s becoming perhaps more thought about these days, is that you can use an annuity to guarantee a level that makes you comfortable, gives you the peace of mind referred to and then maintain some in a drawdown state, such that you can then benefit from investment growth. And perhaps be a little bit more adventurous in your investment choices, because you do have that guaranteed underpin.

PHILIPPA: Okay, so you’re not spending your whole pension pot on an annuity, you’re chopping a chunk of it out for that and then being a bit more flexible with the rest?

MARK: Yes, depending on how much you have in your pension pot. If you’ve got a pension pot of over a million pounds, then you’ve got an awful lot more freedom and less concern about not being able to cover the basics in life.

MARTIN: There’s these new products being kicked around, I think. I only found out about this yesterday. Our Director of Public Affairs reached out to me and said, ‘hey, what do you think about these?’ It’s called decumulation pathways, and I thought she was talking about investment pathways, which is a Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) initiative. Is this potentially confusing to the consumer? Probably, I was confused. I thought we were talking about this other thing.

PHILIPPA: And you know about this stuff, so that’s not great, is it?

MARTIN: So, decumulation pathways are where you do get the annuity and flexi-drawdown blend. And so, it’s proposed to the consumer and there’s some modelling that’s done that they set aside a flexible amount. So how much do you want to have the flexibility of leaving invested. Like you said, it can grow or decrease depending on the markets. And then you do have this guaranteed element. Now, the guaranteed element is pooled with other people that buy the product. So, it’s kind of like an insurance product where other people’s funds are put together. So people that die earlier than expected forfeit their funds and those that live longer than expected, do better. Well, they have the guaranteed element paid out to them. So it measures the longevity risk, or accounts for longevity risk by pulling funds. So it’s interesting, complicated, but interesting.

MARK: I think that’s what it comes down to. It’s the level of simplicity against complication. Possibly the easiest way to think of the most of the old fashioned with profit funds, because that’s effectively what this is. And with profit funds worked very, very well for a long period of time.

PHILIPPA: Just remind us how they worked.

MARK: Again, it’s what’s called pooling of risk. So the idea is everyone pays in the same amount and depending on what happens, you get paid different amounts out. So that if someone dies early, they won’t get as good a value as someone who lives longer. So you’re basically…

PHILIPPA: Gambling on how long you’re gonna live!

MARK: Yeah, well, I suppose we all are, all the time in that respect. But I think that’s the big element. The simplicity against complexity. For some people, they’ll make absolute sense, they’ll get very comfortable with that. For others, they want absolute simplicity. The one bit I would really be keen to get out is that annuities nearly always have the option of being underwritten. So they’ll take account of your lifestyle and your state of health. It’s really, really important that you answer those questions. Because depending on your lifestyle, for example if you smoked, or if you have smoked, you can get a better value annuity.

PHILIPPA: And that’s, just to be clear, because they think you’re going to die sooner.

MARK: Absolutely. That’s the reason. It’s a pure economic piece. Obviously, if you take out an annuity when you’re older, you’ll get better value. Because you’re older, you’ve got to live a shorter lifespan. But also there’s a higher probability of you having something that you can put on this underwritten annuity and therefore get better value as well. The con side of that, of course, is at what age do you want to be making these financial decisions?

PHILIPPA: Yes, when you don’t know what sort of situation you’re going to be in and what state of health you’re going to be in if you leave it that late.

MARK: Absolutely. It’s about how much confidence you have.

MARTIN: I think what’s key there’s just starting early. No matter what product you choose, at the end of the day, whether it’s an annuity or flexible drawdown, start thinking about it as soon as you can. Start putting money into the pension, getting that beautiful tax relief from the government to top up your pension pot. And then you’ve got options. You can make the choice when you need to make the choice and you’re a bit more flexible with it.

PHILIPPA: Is it fair to say people have been frightened of annuities in the past? Because it’s this business of how do you choose which one to go for? You have to shop around for one, don’t you? And I think people don’t feel equipped to do that. How would you do that?

MARK: Part of the regulations now mean that if you go to a provider to purchase an annuity, they’ll take you through the quote or you’ll do it online and you have the opportunity to try all the different options, and see the impact. If another provider would then give you better value for that, the provider you’ve gone to will tell you that. So it’s a far more transparent piece. So you’ve got confidence about whether you’re getting the best price for the choice that you’re making.

FAITH: I mean, let’s face it, people are becoming much more accustomed to shopping around for different financial decisions. If you think about comparing car insurance, home insurance, mobile tariffs and so on.

Annuities are another financial product where you can look for help online from a financial advisor or from the person that provides you a pension if they offer annuity options. So I think people are getting a greater level of comfort and it’s absolutely worth shopping around and comparing what you can get. I think people may have had concerns about annuities because it’s a big decision. You’re handing over a big chunk of money that you’ve saved up over decades in return for an income that’s potentially going to take you through the rest of your life.

PHILIPPA: And you cannot change your mind. Once it’s done, it’s done.

FAITH: Once it’s done, it’s done. But I think the comfort for me - you were talking about potentially making the decision in later life. And I think I can imagine if I was 55, 65 - I’d be quite happy having a chunk of money in drawdown, keeping an eye on the stock market and thinking about how much I should or shouldn’t take out. But later in life, when I’m 75 or 85, I’m not sure I want to be worrying about that. So I could imagine delaying an annuity purchase until I’m older and iller. I’m gonna get more income and I don’t want the hassle of looking at investments and managing them. And so, having that combination over time.

MARK: We did some research and we found just shy of a million people; 990,000, when over the age of 55 and still at work, were now considering annuities for the first time. That’s on top of the 828,000 in that category who already were. So it’s more than doubled. I think it’s largely because of the interest rate rises which mean you get better value. But I think there’s been more discussion in the media about it. I think people are getting a little bit more comfortable with the idea that it’s not that one thing’s good and one thing’s bad. There’s a more nuanced and better coverage of this subject in the market.

PHILIPPA: Yes, as Faith says, people are getting used to shopping around, aren’t they?

HOW TO MAKE A PENSION WITHDRAWAL PLAN

PHILIPPA: So, we know what the options are and we know we need a withdrawal plan. Shall we get into how you make one? Because there’s this big mindset change, isn’t there? When you’re switching from saving to spending. And it’s quite difficult to know how to make your money last.

FAITH: I think it’s a huge mindset change. I know I’ve spent quite a lot of my life making sure I put decent amounts of money into my pension. I’m now counting down the years until I can retire. I’m quite hopeful I might be able to quit before I reach the State Pension age. Part of me is like, ‘Yes, I can get hold of that money and go travelling. The kids will’ve left home. I’m out of here!’

PHILIPPA: She sounds quite pleased about that, doesn’t she?

FAITH: Oh yes, I’ve got lots of plans. But on the other hand, there’s that kind of doubt, if I blow it all by going around the world and having that new kitchen. There’s not really gonna be much left with my 100 year forecast. I think if you have spent so much time saving, then the actual reality of spending it can be a big decision. I think I have a concern that people will have so much fear about running out of money, that they won’t take enough money to enjoy their retirement properly.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, it’s an understandable anxiety, isn’t it? A horrifying thought to think you might not have enough when you’re really old.

FAITH: But horrifying if you end up on your deathbed thinking, ‘Oh my God, I’ve got all that money left. It’s just going to my children! But I could’ve been living it up’.

PHILIPPA: This stuff’s not easy is it? So, shall we think about spending sensibly? How you reach those sorts of decisions. Because obviously, as you say, you don’t want to blow the cash, but then you don’t want to end up sitting on a huge cash pile when you finally die. So Faith, the costs you need to cover when you retire. Most things that stay the same, don’t they?

FAITH: There’ll be some things that stay the same. You can certainly do some kind of budget, looking at what your costs are now. Your basic bills: council tax, water and electricity, that kind of thing. You can also have a serious think about what costs might change. If by the time you retire, you’ve finished paying off your mortgage. If you, for example, wouldn’t have the same commuting costs or the cost of smart clothes for work. Thinking of it over time, the ‘U-shaped’ spending pattern. I’ve seen it described as the ‘go-go years’, ‘slow-go’ and ‘no-go’. With go-go, you’re doing all the travelling and the eating out, and all the stuff you love. Then with slow-go, perhaps your health isn’t so good, you can’t do so much. And then no-go, when suddenly your money’s going on care costs.

PHILIPPA: The other thing that occurs to me’s that we’ve seen some very turbulent economic years recently. We’re talking about pre planning here, but global events like the invasion of Ukraine and the cost of living crisis - these are things you can imagine happening, but they are hard to plan for. But you do need to factor in some element of unexpected downside when you think about all of this.

MARK: Practically impossible to plan for, isn’t it? That’s, I think, where the personality comes in as much as anything else. The people who’re willing to accept this will happen. There’ll be good times, there’ll be bad times. Some of the bad times might be very bad. Some of the good times might be very good. As opposed to those people who really don’t want to worry about any of this. That don’t want any risk at all. And those people who say, ‘well, I’m willing to take some risk, but I want that underpin’.

MARTIN: Yeah and just assume inflation’s going to happen, right? We’re seeing a massively high rate of inflation at the moment. But over the long term, it’s been about 2% or 3%. And the central bank’s target is 2%. So, most online calculators will factor that in. When you make your plans, think about what you need to set aside to cover it. There’s also the sustainable rate of drawdown that’s purported of 4%. Do you guys buy into that? So, if you assume you’re going to get 4% on average return on your investment. So, drawdown 4%. year on year, when you’re on the other side of that, when you’re withdrawing. Does that ring true?

FAITH: I’d seen 4% quoted as a figure by the ‘FIRE movement’, Financial Independence, Retire Early, on the basis that if at year one, you took out 4%, you could then take that amount increased by inflation and that would not completely erode your lump sum. I thought it was more if you took out larger sums above the 4%, that you might be in serious trouble.

MARTIN: Yeah, those guys popularised it, the FIRE movement.

FAITH: I mean, I think it’s a rule of thumb. It’s quite a good way to think about it. But I think in practical terms, if you haven’t gone down the annuity route with a guaranteed income, if you’re not lucky enough to have a final salary, defined benefit pension, where you know exactly what you’re getting and if you’re looking at drawdown, there’s the risk of what the hell’s happening with stock markets. And depending on how stock markets do during your retirement, whether they soar or plummet at the beginning of retirement, that can make a big difference to how much money you’re left with.

But one of the really practical things you can do’s make sure you’ve got a decent stash of money in cash, at least a year’s living expenses. Because that does mean if you’re doing drawdown and you’re potentially at the mercy of the markets, if everything goes to hell in a handbasket - you don’t have to sell your investments when prices are low. You can get by using the cash.

And I think also in early retirement, if you’ve identified in your budget, what your essentials are and what’s nice to have, then you might make decisions depending on how your investments are doing to rein things in a bit. That’s what I mean about how you may have to monitor things. So that’s your personality, age and health. How much do you want to be thinking about managing your money?

PHILIPPA: Mark mentioned earlier this question of how much your pension pot has in it as a determinant of how you choose. What do we think about there? Are the rules of thumb that are useful?

FAITH: I think another thing that’s a mindset change at the point that you start retirement’s that you may be going from a single income stream to funding a retirement from multiple different places. The State Pension will kick in at _pension_age_from_2028, well, _state_pension_age currently, but the age’s rising. Lots of people actually have multiple workplace pensions now. So you’ve got different pots in different places. You might be lucky enough that some of them are final salary, others are defined contribution. But also, you might have savings and investments, outside pensions.

PHILIPPA: ISAs, that sort of thing?

FAITH: Buy-to-let mortgages, you might get an inheritance at some point. So, there may be this patchwork of amounts of money and you’re trying to work out what to spend, when.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, so you really do need a plan. This is the message of the podcast. You do need to think about this stuff. And before the moment arrives that you need to make the decision.

FAITH: Yeah, because the decisions you make could last for the rest of your life. If you buy an annuity, if you hand your money over to scammers, if you take a massive withdrawal from your pension and then carry on working - that’ll restrict how much money you can pay into a pension in the future. It can really cut down on the amount of pension tax relief you can get. So there are big decisions that have lasting effects.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, so this can all sound a bit anxiety inducing. But I think the thing to reiterate is, the more you think about it, the more you plan - the lower your risk of a bad outcome, right?

FAITH: Yes.

MARK: There’s an awful lot of tools available to help people with this. I think most financial institutions will have tools on their websites. The government has the Pension Wise opportunity where you have a free service to get some advice.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, we’ve talked about that on the podcast.

MARK: At Legal & General, we have a retirement planning course that we’ve done with the Open University. It’s independent, it’s unbiased and it’ll just help you think about a lot of these things as you go through it.

PHILIPPA: That brings me to kind of pretty much my final question which was: when should you start working on this withdrawal plan we’ve been talking about? But as you say, those tools are there. And there’s no reason why you can’t have a little play with those at any stage. You don’t have to be imminently thinking about retirement, do you? It’s just that idea of thinking ahead. What might you do? How might it work? What resources have you got?

FAITH: Yeah, and the free Pension Wise appointments are government organised service and those appointments are available from the age of 50. It’s completely free. It’s guidance explaining what your options are. So what you could do, not necessarily what you should do.

PHILIPPA: Before we wrap up, I do think it’s worth remembering that getting older isn’t all totally bad news. Because actually, there are quite a few benefits out there. Price reductions that you can take advantage of that young people don’t get. I’m thinking about reduced prices at galleries, cinemas, that sort of thing. Benefits too. This is all cash.

FAITH: I’ve written articles listing reams of them. Things like getting a senior railcard, getting a free bus pass, getting reduced membership at things like the National Trust and English Heritage. If you look out for pensioner specials in cafes, restaurants and pubs. The fact that once you’re retired, you’re no longer tied to travelling during school holidays and at peak times. You can go midweek, you can go in the off-season and take advantage of significantly reduced prices. There are many things to look forward to.

PHILIPPA: You see, it’s like I said. It’s not all bad news.

MARK: Well, it’s beautiful weather at the moment. My 81 year-old father-in-law went off cycling around the Purbecks yesterday. It’s not a financial thing, but it’s a gorgeous benefit.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, you cannot buy time. It sounds good to me. Thank you very much indeed.

Once more before we go, please remember that anything discussed on the podcast should not be regarded as financial advice. And when investing, your capital is at risk.

Next month: at some point in your life, you might think about having or adopting children. Or you might get together with a new partner who already has some. If that happens, you’ll be spending for two or more, and kids aren’t cheap. So how can you plan ahead financially for having a family?

Join us in July for that one. To catch this and all future episodes, subscribe on your podcast app. They’ll arrive the moment they’re released. And why not give us a rating and review while you’re at it? It doesn’t take a moment. Thanks for being with us. See you next time.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

Period
Market Event
FTSE World TR GBP (%)
4Plus Plan (%)
4Plus Plan’s inception – 6 Sept 2013
QE Tapering, China Interbank Crisis and its aftermath
-5.44
-2.41
3 Oct 2014 – 15 May 2015
Oil price drop, Eurozone deflation fears & Greek election outcome
-5.87
-1.77
7 Jan 2016 – 14 Mar 2016
China’s currency policy turmoil, collapse in oil prices and weak US activity
-7.26
-1.54
15 June 2016 – 30 June 2016
BREXIT referendum
-2.05
-1.07
Period
Market Event
FTSE World TR GBP (%)
4Plus Plan (%)
4Plus Plan’s inception – 6 Sept 2013
QE Tapering, China Interbank Crisis and its aftermath
-5.44
-2.41
3 Oct 2014 – 15 May 2015
Oil price drop, Eurozone deflation fears & Greek election outcome
-5.87
-1.77
7 Jan 2016 – 14 Mar 2016
China’s currency policy turmoil, collapse in oil prices and weak US activity
-7.26
-1.54
15 June 2016 – 30 June 2016
BREXIT referendum
-2.05
-1.07
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