Blog
Here's PensionBee customer, Tony, three years on
In one of our first ever customer case studies, we met 53-year-old Tony. We recently caught up with him to find out if he’s on track for a happy retirement, and learn how PensionBee is helping him achieve his goals.

In one of our first ever customer case studies three years ago, we met Tony, who was approaching retirement and living in Weston-Super-Mare with his wife. He had only recently joined PensionBee, after getting fed up with his previous ‘old-fashioned’ provider, and was starting to think more about his plans for retirement. We recently caught up with Tony to find out if he’s on track for a happy retirement, and learn how PensionBee is helping him achieve his goals. Here’s what he had to say...

PensionBee: What made PensionBee stand out when you were looking for a new provider?

Tony: What stood out for me straight away was the fact PensionBee is a digital platform. I’d had trouble trying to transfer my pensions between providers before, and when I was looking for alternatives, I saw your advert and PensionBee immediately stood out. Corporate providers and the pensions industry as a whole seems somewhat outdated now. The idea of being able to manage my pension through my phone seemed like a no-brainer and much more convenient. Just getting updates by email was a big change!

Even when you were a smaller company, the reviews and comments I’d seen showed lots of people felt the same and addressed any concerns I had.

PensionBee: You originally spoke about wanting to use your pension to buy a new home with your wife. Have you been able to do this? If so, what has your drawdown experience with PensionBee been like?

Tony: Funnily enough I have. I recently turned 55 and took my _corporation_tax tax-free lump sum, but have left the remaining 75% invested. My wife and I moved to Northern Ireland a few years ago to be closer to her daughter. We’ve been renting here up ‘til now, but we’re just about to buy a house and I’ve used some of my pension for this.

If I had to describe the PensionBee withdrawal process in one word... I’d say ‘fluid’. Everything has just been at the touch of a button and easy to do.

In the run up to this, last year there were some market fluctuations, and this worried me a little with the purchase coming up. I knew I was invested in the Tailored Plan, but you had less risky plans I could choose. So I switched my pension to the Preserve Plan, as this gave me the reassurance that my funds were fairly stable. Being able to switch plans like this meant I could plan ahead and protect my pension, ready for when I needed the money.


PensionBee: How has PensionBee helped you become pension confident?

Tony: Everything is just easier and you’re able to do it with the touch of a button in your app. It’s helped with real-time thinking and planning for my pension and retirement plans. I used to only see my pension balance once a year, which didn’t give me much idea or understanding, even though it’s my money. But it’s now just more tangible and flexible to align with me and my needs.

It’s helped with real-time thinking and planning for my pension and retirement plans.

I can’t see myself retiring anytime soon, I think I’ll be working to at least State Pension age, similar to lots of other people I think. But I know my money is in safe hands, and I can easily consider and change my investment options as I get closer to retirement. Lots of people are nervous about digital services, but it’s a no-brainer for me, especially moving forward.

PensionBee: Looking back, what advice would you give to a younger Tony?

Tony: I suppose when I was younger and started my pension, I didn’t really have any idea about it. I knew I was paying into one with my employer, but the process was a bit of a ‘sign here’ one, You accepted you were paying into it each month but I didn’t really understand where my money was going I guess, or even give it much thought. So I think I should have looked after my money better as a whole and thought about the future more to put me in the position I wanted to be in.

PensionBee: What do you enjoy most about PensionBee?

Tony: Just the overall offering. The app and newsletters are great. It’s nice to see your profiles on Twitter and Facebook, it just isn’t something I’d expect from a provider and it’s reassuring I suppose. Being kept in the loop and having these insights into the company and the brand is brilliant.

I’ve also enjoyed growing with PensionBee as a company, I joined quite early on and have seen how far you’ve come and how the services have grown too. Even though you’ve increased in size a lot, and quickly, it’s been seamless and communicated really well throughout.

{{main-cta}}

PensionBee: How do you think the pensions industry could improve to help consumers?

Tony: It needs to be more tangible and visible to customers. It’s people’s money, so they should be able to see in real-time what’s happening, not just getting an update once a year like I used to. There needs to be a better, more fluid arrangement around the whole pension system. Nothing is combined across the industry, it feels broken almost and just takes a long time for things to happen.

Where PensionBee are working with banks and other providers to bring together services and systems for its customers, others aren’t shifting. You’re setting the example for others to follow.

PensionBee: Can you describe your experience with us in 3 words?

Tony: Second to none!

As always, we’d love to hear your feedback, so leave your comments below or get in touch with the team on Twitter!

Celebrating Pride Month at PensionBee
Promoting diversity and inclusivity is a key focus at PensionBee. Find out how we’re celebrating Pride Month and the LGBTQ+ movement as a company.

Throughout June we’re proud to be celebrating LGBTQ+ Pride Month at PensionBee, and even though we can’t join our local parade this year, there are lots of fun things we’re doing internally.

LGBTQ+ Pride is about appreciating community and diversity, remembering the progress that has been made against discrimination, and celebrating love in all its forms. Pride Month takes place every year in June, and is celebrated across the world in recognition of the LGBTQ+ movement. June was selected as the month to celebrate Pride as it was the month when the Stonewall riots took place in New York in 1969.

A year after the Stonewall riots, Mark Segal, an LGBTQ+ pioneer and witness to the riots, founded the first New York City Pride march in 1970, which has been running ever since. The first Pride festival in the UK took place in 1972 in London, with around 2,000 people in attendance. Now more than a million people turn out in London to celebrate each year.

LGBTQ+ at PensionBee

Whilst Pride Month brings visibility to the LGBTQ+ community and the issues they face in society, promoting diversity and inclusion within our team culture is a key focus at PensionBee all year round. The concept of diversity and inclusivity encompasses acceptance and respect and is central to our five company values of Love, Innovation, Honesty, Simplicity and Quality.

At PensionBee we have two Diversity Champions, Rachael and James, and are planning to expand the team in the coming weeks. Our Diversity Champions are responsible for running internal events that help us to celebrate our differences, highlight our similarities and create a safe space where important discussions can take place.

This month, Pride has provided us with an opportunity to discuss love and identity as a team, sharing experiences and increasing our knowledge about the LGBTQ+ community. James, one of our Diversity Champions, says: “It’s important for us to embrace and celebrate our diversity in all it’s forms, so it’s great that myself and Rachael can bring colleagues together to celebrate Pride.

At PensionBee, we believe that having a diverse and inclusive team allows us to better understand our diverse customer base, leading to better business decisions. Our CMO, Jasper Martens, says: “We’re stewards of our customers’ hard-earned pension money and can only do our job well if we’ve built a pension product with input from a diverse, inclusive and happy team.

Our vision is to live in a world where everyone has a happy retirement, and we believe that a happy team will lead to happy customers. That’s why happiness is at the heart of our team culture and so everyone at PensionBee has a ‘Happiness!’ Manager who they meet with every 6-8 weeks. A ‘Happiness!’ meeting focuses solely on how someone’s feeling, and what the company can do to support them. During these meetings conversations cover everything from a colleague’s work and home life to their emotional wellbeing which includes encouraging them to be their full self in all aspects of their life, particularly when it comes to their identity.

Our LGBTQ+ Bar

One event that we’ve set up during Pride Month is our LGBTQ+ Bar which opens every Friday at 5pm. In our virtual bar we have themed discussions as a team, providing an opportunity for colleagues and friends to come together to share stories and learn from each other. Each week has had a different topic of conversation, ranging from gender binary and fluidity, to how people’s experiences have changed within the workplace. While we’ve only had two sessions to date, we believe it’s initiatives like this that help make PensionBee such a fun and inclusive place to work, and speaks to the culture we’ve created where everyone feels valued and supported.

Sam, one of our Nectar Collectors, who joined our first LGBTQ+ Bar said “I have become so comfortable in my identity at work that I recently hosted a Q&A session centred on gender identity and what it means to be non-binary. I never expected to succeed in the financial industry as a queer, transgender person, until I joined PensionBee.

Pride Slack channel

We have also set up a ‘PensionBee Pride’ Slack channel which allows everyone in the company to share ideas and resources and discuss the ways we can support the LGBTQ+ community. Ari, a member of our marketing teams says: “It’s been great to hear from everyone and learn about the LGBTQ+ history, get recommendations for some podcasts to listen to and just be a part of general chat around the Pride movement.

Donut catch-ups

Another initiative we have at PensionBee to promote diversity and inclusivity is our Donut program. Two members of staff get randomly paired together and go out for a donut (getting a donut isn’t compulsory though!). This is an opportunity to get to know other members of the company who you may not usually get a chance to interact with in the office. Whilst the topic of conversations vary, lots of recent Donut’s have been centred around the issues that matter most to us from Pride Month to the Black Lives Matter movement.

At PensionBee we know that everyone is unique, from our team members through to our 280,000 registered customers, and we frequently celebrate this both internally and externally. We’re passionate about challenging the outdated pensions industry, and part of that is challenging the traditional outlook of what a workplace should look like. That’s why we think it’s important to champion diversity year-round at PensionBee, not just during Pride Month.

Listen to our CEO, Romi, talking pensions with Times Money Mentor
Our CEO, Romi Savova, recently took part in a Times Money Mentor webinar discussing pensions, planning ahead and how to simplify your finances.

On Friday 5 June our CEO, Romi, was invited to join a live webinar for Times Money Mentor, a free website from The Times designed to help you make smarter financial decisions and grow your money through how-to guides, articles, Q&As, inspirational stories and videos. The event saw Romi, Gemma Godfrey, Executive Editor of Times Money Mentor and Kate Palmer, Senior Money Reporter for The Times and The Sunday Times, discuss the importance of planning ahead for a happy retirement.

Romi discussed what coronavirus means for your pensions and investments, making the most of your pension contributions and answered viewers’ questions live with Gemma and Kate. You can watch a full recording of the webinar below. If you have any questions that weren’t covered, let us know in the comments below or get in touch with us on Twitter!

Watch Money to the Masses’ live pension Q&A with our CEO
Our CEO, Romi Savova, recently took part in a live Q&A with Money to the Masses, answering your pension related questions.

On Friday 15 May our CEO, Romi, took part in a live pensions Q&A, hosted by Money to the Masses director Damien Fahy. Money to the Masses is one of the UK’s leading independent personal finance websites, empowering consumers to take control of their finances. Romi answered reader questions about consolidating your pensions, the options you have when drawing down your pension, and how to make the most of the Money Purchase Annual Allowance (MPAA).

Here are some of the key topics Romi covered:

You can watch the full replay of the Q&A below. If you have any questions that weren’t covered, let us know in the comments below or get in touch with us on Twitter!

8 questions that can speed up your pension transfer
Whilst our aim is to make pension transfers as easy as possible, some providers are still stuck in the dark ages. Find out some of the questions you can your provider to speed your transfer up.

This article was last updated on 21/05/2025

Transferring a pension should be simple, however this isn’t always the case. At PensionBee we want to make transfers as easy as possible, but unfortunately not all providers share our vision. When we looked at pension transfer times across the industry, we found that some providers take over two months to complete a transfer.

We know that slow pension transfers can make it even harder for you to stay engaged with your retirement savings. This can potentially leave you worse off in the long run. Our Cost of Disengagement Report dives into the risks of ignoring your pension and highlights why the industry urgently needs to make saving for the future easier.

As soon as we know the details of your pension, we’ll try to do all the legwork for you. But there are a few things you can do to speed up your transfer. Here are eight questions to ask both your pension provider and yourself to make your transfer quicker.

1. What type of pension do I have?

Most workplace and personal pensions are defined contribution pensions. Transferring a defined contribution pension should be fairly straightforward. Pension transfers can be more complex if you have a defined benefit pension (also known as a ‘final salary’ pension). You may have one if you’ve worked for a large company or in the public sector. With defined benefit pensions, you’ll have to seek independent financial advice if it’s worth over £30,000, which can delay the transfer.

2. Will I lose any benefits or face charges when I transfer?

Pensions can sometimes come with guarantees, known as ‘safe-guarded benefits‘, as long as you remain in the scheme. The level of reward will vary, but it’s important to understand what you’ll lose before committing to transfer your pension. If you’re not sure, you can ask your old provider for more information.

When leaving a scheme early, you may be faced with a pension transfer charge, also known as an ‘exit fee’. The amount you’re charged can vary between providers and schemes. It’s important to understand how much you’ll be charged and the impact the charges can have on your pension pot size in the short and long-term.

At PensionBee, we charge one single annual management fee, which is taken directly from your pension pot. This will be between 0.50 and 0._rate, depending on the plan you choose. There are no hidden transfer fees, or any other kind of fees.

3. Does my new provider need to send a letter of authority?

A letter of authority (LOA) shows providers that you’ve given PensionBee permission to request pension information on your behalf. Although we’re sometimes able to request the transfer straight away, if we need any information about your pension, we’ll need to send an LOA first.

Finding out if we’ll need an LOA, and where to send it, can help to fast track your transfer. Some providers have multiple departments. So knowing the best postal or email address to use cuts out a lot of the back and forth between us and your provider.

4. Is my personal information up to date?

The personal details you’ve given PensionBee will need to match the information held by your current provider when requesting a transfer. So if you’ve moved house or got married since opening the pension, you’ll need to update this information with your old provider first.

If any details don’t match up, your provider won’t release any information about your pension. You might then need to send further paperwork and proof of identification to your provider so they can verify your identity.

5. Is my pension active?

Before transferring a pension, all personal and employer contributions will need to have finished. If the pension is still receiving contributions, these could be lost or delay the transfer. Most providers will insist on three months of no contributions before accepting a transfer request, so it’s worth checking sooner rather than later. With PensionBee you can add an active pension to your account, and as soon as you stop receiving contributions we can initiate the transfer.

6. Do I have all of my policy information?

When tracing a pension, any information you’re able to provide us at the moment of sign up is a massive help. This could be your provider’s name or a policy number. Any information you can dig out will go a long way to finding your pension and helping us complete the transfer faster.

If you need support with this, you can use the government’s Pension Tracing Service. It’s a database of pension plans that allows you to search for your employer’s name, to see if there’s a record of their pension provider.

{{main-cta}}

7. Do you accept electronic transfers?

Although paper transfer forms are less common now, some providers still use them. In fact, around 8% of the transfers we process require us to use paper forms. Not only is this bad for the environment, it slows down your transfer and carries the risk of valuable information being lost in the post too.

At PensionBee we do our part by using the electronic transfer platform Origo Options. This allows for a safer, more efficient and environmentally-friendly transfer of your pension. If your provider accepts electronic transfers, your money should be moved in no more than two weeks. However, if your old provider insists on paper transfer forms, the transfer can take up to twice as long. These delays allow your provider to earn more in fees and may even put you off transferring altogether.

8. Is there anything else I can do?

With most transfers, having your policy information and authority to act on your behalf is enough. However, some providers will have additional requirements. This is particularly common among providers who still use paper transfer forms. Finding out if you’ll need to send proof of identification or further paperwork, can ensure a smoother transfer.

Speaking to your provider both before and during the transfer means you can avoid any blockers, and ensure there aren’t any hiccups along the way.

How does consolidation work with PensionBee?

At PensionBee we’ll always keep you in the loop about your transfer and aim to make the process as simple as possible. You can sign up in just a few minutes and you’ll be assigned your very own UK-based BeeKeeper should you have any questions throughout your pension journey with us.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

The PensionBee value of honesty
At PensionBee we have five company values, and the value of ‘honesty’ is at the centre of everything we do. Here’s why...

At PensionBee we have five company values: innovation, love, simplicity, quality and honesty. Earlier in the year, I wrote about innovation and love. Now I’d like to tell you about our value of honesty. ‘Honesty’ might not be a word that is generally associated with financial services. It’s an industry for which there’s a lot of mistrust, and you could say understandably so. It was really important to us, therefore, that PensionBee put the value of honesty at the centre of everything we do. We’re asking people to trust their hard-earned money with us. The money that will help them enjoy the last chapter of their life. How are we to expect our customers to trust us if we aren’t honest with them?

Being honest with each other

We’ve worked hard to build an environment in the office that encourages honesty. Our CTO, Jonathan, recently wrote a piece on our blog all about our amazing ‘Happiness!’ program (it’s one of the reasons we won a Diversity & Inclusion Champion award at the Computing Tech Marketing & Innovation Awards last month) but in a nutshell, the program consists of all employees, right up to the founders, having regular meetings with their ‘Happiness!’ manager. We’re encouraged to answer the question of whether we’re happy honestly, and it makes a lot of sense, because if things aren’t right, we want to know, so that we can make them right. Of course, we also hear the reasons that people are happy, and that can be just as helpful in showing us when we’re on the right path.

In the spirit of transparency, our CEO, Romi, holds monthly ‘CEO Sessions’ where she talks to us about aspects of the business that we might not see in our day-to-day work lives. As an employee, being kept in touch with all the important information and big decisions being made, makes a real difference to how connected to and how involved with the company you feel. We’ve recently also started a new series called ‘Ask Me Anything’, where a member of the team will host an open lunch where anyone from the company can join and ask them questions about their job or department or a specific topic.

Another regular session we run is the ‘BeeStorm’, which I talked about in my piece on our value of innovation. The ‘BeeStorm’ is intended to give the Customer Success Team a platform to tell us where improvements can be made to the processes they’re following. Encouraging this kind of feedback not only helps us to make sure we’re always improving our systems, but it also gives that team a stronger sense of ownership over the tools they’re using. And happy employees tend to make happy customers!

Being honest with our customers

Being honest with our customers is something that we care deeply about at PensionBee, and something that we encourage from others in our industry as well. For a lot of people, pensions are a product that is shrouded in mystery, and lifting the cloak on that is central to our company mission. This mission manifests itself in several ways from being transparent about the fees we charge our customers, to publishing data about how we, and others in the industry, perform when it comes to transferring pensions.

In fact, our whole service is based on the belief that transparency in pensions is what customers need and deserve. We believe that customers should always know what’s happening with their money, which is why our customers get to see how their pension’s performing, not just once a year, but every time they log into their account. We recently became the first pension provider to adopt the Simpler Annual Statement, a two-page document that gives customers the information they really need in an easy-to-digest format. For too long, pension statements (often the only insight a customer gets into their pension) have been thick wads of paper, with so much information on them, that it’s been hard for savers to find the information that matters to them.

Honesty with our customers isn’t just a one-way street though. We want our customers to be honest with us too! We actively seek feedback from our customers all the time and the responses we get are shared with the entire team in weekly updates and in our weekly ‘Show’n’Tell’ sessions, where a portion of time is assigned to hearing some of the feedback we’ve had in the previous week. We also live-feed our Trustpilot reviews into a Slack channel that the whole company has access to, so whether the feedback is good or bad, we all get to see, in real-time, what our customers are saying about us. We have an unofficial company policy to say thank you for all feedback. Often it’s nice to hear, sometimes it isn’t, but it’s always helpful, because even if we disagree with the feedback (we rarely do!), it still tells us something about how our customers feel about our service, and that is an invaluable learning.

It’s almost impossible to build a high-quality product or to offer high-quality service, without feedback, which is especially important to us, since another of our company values is quality. I’ll tell you more about that next time.

How PensionBee’s supporting vulnerable customers
Here’s how we’re supporting vulnerable customers at PensionBee...

Money has evolved dramatically in recent years. In 2019, credit card spending overtook cash payments for the first time, and during the pandemic we saw a massive shift to digital payments as many vendors refused to accept cash altogether, favouring contactless payment methods instead. As our money and financial services industry has become increasingly digitised, scammers have become highly sophisticated, often targeting our personal details over our wallets.

Research conducted by consumer champion, Boring Money, found that a third of all investors self-identified as vulnerable to financial harm. With the cost-of-living crisis continuing into 2023, more people run the risk of falling between the cracks. Our company vision’s for everyone to feel in control of their finances so they can look forward to a happy retirement. Here’s how we’re supporting vulnerable customers at PensionBee...

Identifying vulnerability in customers

As the regulator of the UK financial services industry, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) coaches financial companies on how to deliver good practices in business and the fair treatment of consumers. According to the FCA, it’s the duty of financial institutions to protect customers from this harm: like falling for a scam, or sliding into unaffordable debt.

In the FCA’s own words: “A vulnerable customer is someone who, due to their personal circumstances, is especially susceptible to harm, particularly when a firm is not acting with appropriate levels of care.” The responsibility isn’t for vulnerable customers to advocate for themselves. Companies must work towards spotting and supporting vulnerable customers.

There are the four categories of vulnerability the FCA advises firms to watch out for:

1. Capability

Making informed decisions about your money requires you to hold the right information.


Capability characteristics that increase financial vulnerability


Insufficient knowledge or confidence in managing finances

Limited, or non-existent, digital abilities

Poor literacy and numeracy skills

Restricted access to help and support

2. Health

Making informed decisions about your money requires you to hold the right information.

Health characteristics that increase financial vulnerability


Addiction, or compulsive behaviour

Hearing or visual impairment

Mental health, or physical disability

Severe or long-term illness

3. Life events

Making informed decisions about your money requires you to hold the right information.

Life events that increase financial vulnerability


Change in finances, like redundancy

Domestic abuse or traumatic experiences

Giving or receiving caring responsibilities

Loss through bereavement or relationship breakdown

4. Resilience

Making informed decisions about your money requires you to hold the right information.

Resilience characteristics that increase financial vulnerability


Inadequate or erratic income

Limited emotional resilience

Over-indebtedness

Restricted or lack of savings

What does being a vulnerable customer mean?

As you can see, the list of characteristics that increase your vulnerability to financial harm are extensive. In all likelihood, you may have been identified by your bank or another financial services provider as a vulnerable customer at one point in your life.

This is where the FCA’s ‘Consumer Duty‘ principles come in. The Consumer Duty advises financial firms that “consumers should receive communications they can understand, products and services that meet their needs and offer fair value, and they get the customer support they need, when they need it”. Whether you realise that you’re vulnerable or not, when you communicate with your financial provider they’ll be trained to spot these characteristics and support you to the best of their ability.

How we support our vulnerable customers at PensionBee

An empathetic customer experience

As PensionBee’s COO, I’m responsible for a range of operational activities across the business, including our Customer Success and Compliance teams. To give the best customer experience, we need an empathetic and knowledgeable in-house team. Our guiding light in all communications is our company value of love. All our customers are assigned a personal BeeKeeper to give them a friendly, human experience.

Our BeeKeepers go through in-depth training on identifying vulnerability characteristics and acting with care, as part of their onboarding training program. Our Team Leaders conduct spot checks and provide regular training to ensure our customers receive the highest level of service. If a customer’s unhappy with our service, our Compliance team investigates and aims to respond within three working days after receiving the complaint.

An inclusive product design

Our CDO, Matt Loft, oversees the development of new and existing features for our entire customer journey. He’s made it his mission to embed clear accessibility and consider vulnerability across the PensionBee mobile app and website. Every interface is carefully reviewed to ensure our product design supports all of our customers.

From workshops with screen readers to understand how visually impaired customers may receive information, to focus groups and questionnaires monitoring customer interests. Using these feedback loops and tracking customer insights, our product continually adapts to better suit the evolving needs of our growing customer base.

What if I’m a vulnerable customer?

PensionBee takes your vulnerability seriously. If you’re comfortable sharing your vulnerability characteristics with your BeeKeeper, we’ll try our best to make any reasonable adjustments for you whilst maintaining strict confidentiality. We’re committed to creating a customer-centric culture that permeates all teams: from our Software Engineers improving your app interface, to your BeeKeeper keeping you in the loop on your pension transfers.

If you’re struggling right now, and you need to talk to someone, call Samaritans on 116 123. You can speak to a volunteer from Mental Health Innovations there. They’re open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. You can also text the word ‘SHOUT’ to 85258. You can do it entirely anonymously if that’s what you’d prefer. The first port of call for any mental health issues, big or small, should be your GP. They can connect you with your local NHS Mental Health Trust to support you with any sort of treatment you might need.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

4 pension innovations that could make the dashboard obsolete before it’s even here
Is the pensions dashboard becoming less and less necessary?

I’m a huge proponent of the Pensions Dashboards, however, like most in the industry, I’m getting a bit tired of waiting for the DWP to issue something of substance.

Knowing exactly the type of gremlins that lie in providers’ pension data, I don’t think the 2019 deadline is achievable and at best we are looking at 2021 for even the best-in class providers to submit their data.

Three years is a long time and rather than go on about why the dashboard should in fact be multiple dashboards and that we don’t need full coverage on day 1 - debates which have been had ad nauseum in the industry already - I thought it may be helpful to point out a couple of developments that may make the dashboard obsolete by the time it comes into production.

Bank marketplaces

Banks and data aggregators are already offering dashboard-like functionality to consumers and the ability to see one’s pension balance next to one’s current account is hugely appealing. PensionBee’s recent integration with Starling Bank, the coolest new bank on the block, shows the power of aggregated data for consumers.

Both PensionBee and Nutmeg are also available on Bud - a provider of dashboards to banks - and we have heard more pension providers are expressing interest in joining the party.

Now of course this is slightly less appealing if you have 11 or so different pensions, but there are already initiatives underway to reduce the number of pots people accumulate in the first place...

Pension follows member

A proposal to allow consumers to choose their auto-enrolment pension is gaining momentum in the industry. Indeed, pension follows member will dramatically reduce pension pot proliferation, particularly in industries where job-hopping is fairly prominent.

We at PensionBee support pension follows member because it will encourage consumer ownership of pensions and pension outcomes. But let’s be honest - not everyone will take it up because the employer’s default would still be available, well, by default.

But fortunately, consolidation at various points in time is also becoming easier...

Transfer standards

The newly issued guidance by the Transfers and Re-registration Industry Group clearly calls for a 14-day end-to-end switching guideline and while the standard is voluntary, it does sound like a register of who is and isn’t complying will be forthcoming.

PensionBee exists to make pensions simple and as the only U.K. pension company exclusively focused on consolidation, we have been very vocal in calling for an end-to-end pension switch guarantee, so we’re delighted to have played our part in getting consumer voices heard at the table.

And switching will become much more likely once we can compare our pensions...

Value for money analysis

Data suggests that over a third of consumers switch car insurance annually. Why? Because it’s easy to compare different quotes and switching is easy. Well if transfers can be completed in 2 weeks, then what we are really missing is some value for money analysis that can help a consumer determine whether they are in the right product or not.

Propelled by the work of Chris Sier to standardise cost disclosures through the Financial Conduct Authority’s Institutional Disclosure Working Group, Henry Tapper is due to launch a pension comparison tool that I ultimately expect will be adopted by the likes of MoneySuperMarket and the other aggregators - where some 13 million consumers shop for financial products annually.

So if we can already see our pensions data online and we are less and less likely to accumulate pensions as time progresses, what will be the point of the Pensions Dashboards?

As the private sector steps up, the Pensions Dashboards is becoming less and less necessary

I suspect the Pensions Dashboards will ultimately propel all of the movements and technologies described above but let’s be clear: as the private sector steps up, the pensions dashboard is becoming less and less necessary to solve the pensions mess in the country. So hurry up, Mr. Opperman, before we all beat you to it.

What should the government do about the Pensions Dashboards?
Our CEO tells us what she we would do if she were in the DWP's shoes...

I recently had the pleasure of presenting at the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) annual “Summer School”. Beyond talking about social media and pension engagement, it seems my blog on pension innovations that could make the dashboard irrelevant was quite popular. Of course we got onto talking about options for the dashboard and what would I do if I were in the DWP’s shoes. So I thought I would spell these views out publicly so that others can accept or quibble!

Please don’t build a dashboard

Just because not everyone can supply data on Day 1, does not mean that we should delay or abandon the project

There have been some desperate cries from various media outlets for the government not to “abandon” building a dashboard. Just to be clear: as far as I am aware, nobody has ever asked the government to build any sort of dashboard. The private sector is fully capable of building the technology to support people to see their pensions in one place. PensionBee is already facilitating live pension balances to our mutual Starling Bank customers and various other aggregators are rapidly following suit.

The government is poorly equipped and incentivised to maintain dashboard technology that the private sector is desperate to support. So what should the government help with?

Decide on the priorities

The objectives for the Pensions Dashboards are lofty and they include the following:

  • Reconcile people with lost pensions as much as possible (especially those who switch jobs frequently and have been auto-enrolled)
  • Help people see all their pensions in one place so they can plan for retirement
  • Create engagement around pension savings

Achieving all of the objectives is not possible because not all providers will be able to supply clean data on Day 1. But just because not everyone can supply data on Day 1, does not mean that we should delay or abandon the project. Rather, we need to achieve our priorities in order.

The obvious solution is to start with the first objective to reconcile people with “lost” pensions. These people will happily log in periodically to “find” their “lost” pensions as more providers join because it is a bit like finding free money. They do not need to see everything at once.

Decide who needs to supply data and when based on the priorities

To start with the first objective, the government should compel those who can give data to do so. These will typically be the newer auto-enrolment providers and their data will help reconcile job-switchers with their “lost” pensions. I don’t believe that DB pensions or the state pension need to be part of the launch phase – DB pensions and the State Pension are rarely if ever “lost”. In order to achieve the second objective, to help people see all their pensions in one place, the DWP should then give deadlines to those who must clean. Cleaning should not really be negotiable. Under GDPR requirements, all providers have an obligation to maintain clean customer data. It is not the customer’s problem if pension provider data is (horrifyingly) written down in excel spreadsheets. And finally, once the data is there, we can talk about ways to create engagement and set some parameters for the private sector.

In sum, I would be in favour of splitting providers into “groups”, starting with those who can supply data doing so in 2020 (let’s be ambitious, but also realistic) and staging the rest of the providers over 3 years. Providers can voluntarily choose which group they belong to, bearing in mind their choice reflects their priority to maintaining clean customer data.

Set the groundwork for the data standards, but don’t go reinventing (or in fact building) the wheel

At the end of the day pension data belongs to the consumer and the consumer should have the right to share their pension data with whomever they wish, subject to that person being responsible. This is the principle behind open banking that has required the UK’s major banks to make our data freely available to companies that hold the right permissions with the Financial Conduct Authority. To progress the technical standards behind open banking, the regulators created the Open Banking Implementation Entity (funded by the UK’s nine largest banks) to design the API specifications, security and messaging standards and guidelines for the participants. There is no reason that a similar body cannot exist for pensions.

So that’s it in my opinion. I don’t mean to trivialise what is clearly an important matter for consumers, but I do think it’s important to see the forest through the trees. So here’s to the DWP’s Feasibility Study – let’s hope it’s worth the wait.

We're celebrating 1,000 Trustpilot reviews!
Our CEO, Romi, discusses PensionBee achieving 1,000 Trustpilot reviews, and why this is an important milestone well worth celebrating.

Today I am honoured to let you know that we have achieved 1,000 Trustpilot reviews, cementing our 5-star average. Of all the milestones to celebrate, I want you to know why this one is so important to us here at PensionBee.

The fundamental thing that makes PensionBee different from all other pension providers is how much we care about our customers and giving you a fantastic experience. In 2014 we set out on a journey to help the U.K. look forward to a happy retirement by making pensions simple. To achieve this goal, we have enshrined the value of customer love in everything we do.

We don’t believe in taking shortcuts when it comes to customer service and that is why every single customer receives a personal BeeKeeper to guide them on their pension journey. However, you should know that every employee at PensionBee serves our customers in some way, and I have greatly enjoyed speaking to many of you on the phone and on livechat.

I would like to share what happens when we receive a review from you. Our entire company is immediately notified and your BeeKeeper is acknowledged. If the review is positive, great. However, if the review is negative or includes areas for improvement, our top priority is to respond, assess what went wrong and fix it. While there is little we can do about market fluctuations, rest assured that everything within our control is examined and addressed with immediate urgency.

We manage about half a billion pounds in pensions on your behalf and no doubt our biggest challenge will be to continue growing PensionBee while maintaining your satisfaction. We know there is a long way to go and lots more we can do to keep you happy. In addition to Trustpilot, we proactively seek your feedback on a weekly basis and we use your insights to inform everything from our internal processes to our future product releases.

Thank you for taking the time to tell us what you think. We are delighted to serve you!

Our current view on Pensions Dashboards
Our CEO, Romi, outlines the PensionBee position on Pensions Dashboards, ahead of joining The Pensions Dashboard Industry Delivery Group.

I’m happy to announce that today I will be joining The Pensions Dashboard Industry Delivery Group, giving consumers a louder voice in the creation of Pensions Dashboards. We’re looking forward to bringing our years of experience to the table, and we’ll be doing all we can to ensure the project is delivered successfully for the benefit of consumers.

At their foundation, our view is that the full vision of Pensions Dashboards must be delivered by two concurrent movements:

  • The creation of the Money and Pension Service’s “pension finder service”, which will effectively replace the government’s current pension finder service by providing more accurate and timely information to consumers
  • The furthering of the UK’s world-leading Open Finance system, which will extend Open Banking-like protocols to pensions, enabling consumers to share their data with trusted third-parties

Let’s start by running through some of our thoughts on the “pension finder service”.

We must deliver a pension finder service that’s fit for purpose

Above all else we believe that the pension finder service must be delivered swiftly and incrementally. Consumers cannot be kept waiting for decades for a “big bang” approach.

Sensible increments would include “year from” staging; for example all pensions established on or after 1 January, 2012 should be part of the first wave of compulsion. This rule achieves the benefit of incorporating the largest master trusts and other new providers who are most technologically prepared.

The State Pension should be included in the first wave

In addition, this approach also has the benefit of consumer familiarity, as consumers will be most able to recognise potential data gaps (rather than staging by pension scheme size, which would require consumers to be familiar with pension provider market shares).

As a result of staged compulsion, the State Pension should be included in the first wave. This should ensure that the majority of consumers have something positive to see on their first visit, and are encouraged to return. We also believe there should be no exemptions from compulsion, as the rules of exemption will be difficult for consumers to understand.

On a more technical level, the pension finder service should collect email addresses. Emails could then notify customers who opt-in to periodically check new data additions, so that they stay engaged.

Pensions Dashboards logins must use a digital ID standard

Elsewhere, Pensions Dashboards logins must use a digital ID standard that enables more than 8_personal_allowance_rate of the eligible population to log in on a first attempt. The government is currently consulting on a digital ID framework which must be adopted for the pension finder service. It would be wise for the Steering Group to develop a “Plan B” consisting of key authentication factors - name, address, national insurance number, date of birth - should the Digital ID not be available in time for a public launch.

Finally, the pension finder service should give the minimum useful information, so as not to delay the launch. This must include:

  • A policy number
  • Year-end balances
  • Charges in %
  • Charges in £ for the last 12 months
  • A link to the provider’s website where the consumer can obtain more information

This information, and in particular charges, are already consistent with the information pension providers are required to provide under current regulations.

Ultimately, the successful implementation of the pension finder is crucial to the success of any dashboard. However, it’s essential not to neglect the importance of Open Finance and data sharing.

Why Open Finance and data sharing have a big role to play

While the Pensions Dashboards will help consumers find their lost pensions, the vast majority of pensions are not lost and consumers need to be able to share their pension data safely and effectively, in predictable ways.

Many consumers are required to post their valuable financial information

As things stand, many consumers are required to post their valuable financial information around the country using “letters of authority” and “wet signatures”. These practices are inconsistent with modern behaviour and also potentially with the law. While the Money and Pension Service’s pension finder service is being enabled, so too will protocols for safe and efficient pension data sharing.

Thankfully, it is expected that Open Pensions (led by the Financial Conduct Authority’s work on Open Finance), and the pension finder service will converge over the next few years. We will support all efforts to align Open Pensions as closely as possible to Open Banking, so as to give consumers a consistent experience across financial products.

We will support all efforts to align Open Pensions as closely as possible to Open Banking

Consumers will wish to share data from the pension finder service directly from the major providers, and they should be allowed to share this data with trusted third-parties. From this lens, it is appropriate not to think of pension dashboards per se, but to think of pension dashboard services that are facilitated through data sharing.

Indeed, one does not necessarily need to display all of the data from the pension finder service in order to help a consumer and it is quite possible that data from the pension finder service will be used selectively.

For instance, if a comparison service for defined contribution pensions exists, it will not necessarily need to show all of the available information on a consumer’s public sector pensions. It is therefore important that the appropriate principles-based regulation exists, to ensure pension dashboard services are mitigating potential consumer detriment - without stifling the innovation consumers need to plan for retirement.

In our opinion, it is crucial that the major pension providers are required to electronically provide detailed pension information about their customers to trusted third-parties (as the pension finder service will only provide a minimal amount of information).

This information should include:

  • Balances
  • Charges in £ and %
  • Net contribution histories
  • Tax top up histories
  • Exit fees
  • Current Sedol / ISIN / Other investment codes
  • 5 year past performance of the relevant investment

While the ICO guidance and GDPR laws must be adhered to at all times, trusted third-parties must also be authorised and regulated to access this information by the Financial Conduct Authority, using existing permissions that enable access to banking data but delineating pensions as a separate product. It would be inconsistent with the current regulatory framework to require authorisation of banking information providers, but not of pension information providers. Stronger permissioning will also facilitate data storage, a requirement for the development of consumer-oriented services and indeed a requirement for many regulated activities.

Stronger permissioning will also facilitate data storage

Controlled testing of commercial dashboards will be essential, but it is equally important that dashboards and dashboard-associated services are allowed to evolve with consumer demand for assistance. Ultimately, if the pension industry can modernise our data sharing practices and the government can provide a pension finder that’s fit for purpose, we will have the foundations in place to deliver the full vision of the Pensions Dashboard.

The Pensions Dashboards ecosystem: protecting consumers and enabling innovation
Our CEO, Romi, outlines her thoughts on The Pensions Dashboards, and how it can deliver the safe and innovative ecosystem consumers deserve.

Pensions Dashboards have the potential to revolutionise consumers’ engagement with their pensions. By making clear where the £20 billion of lost pensions are, consumers will be empowered to take control of their money and better prepared to plan for retirement using convenient forecasting tools. Through open data, consumers will be able to integrate today’s money with tomorrow’s money, resulting in higher contributions and better retirement outcomes.

However, consumer innovation must be delivered responsibly and Pensions Dashboards will only thrive in an environment that provides the appropriate protection for consumers.

Following today’s publication of the Pension Schemes Bill, below are my thoughts on how to deliver the safe and innovative ecosystem consumers deserve.

Enable safe data sharing

The government has been clear that multiple Pensions Dashboards services will exist from the outset and therefore safe data sharing must be enabled from day one. The consumer owns their data and they will wish to share it. It is important that sharing is only permissible with trusted, authorised and regulated third parties. It is a myth that delaying so-called “commercial dashboards” will prevent the free flow of data. On the contrary, if we fail to consider, define and communicate data sharing protocols and expectations with consumers, any scammer will be legally allowed to scrape the data. Scammers thrive in the grey zone.

Appropriate authorisation

The Financial Conduct Authority has been tasked with defining the appropriate authorisation mechanisms. It would be a stark anomaly and an unprecedented regulatory arbitrage to require specific regulations to access banking data through Open Banking while allowing any form of regulated entity to access pension data. This loophole should not be allowed to exist and the Financial Conduct Authority should begin to engage on the matter with immediate urgency so as not to delay the launch of public dashboards.

Sufficient information

Appropriate information must be displayed on the dashboards to allow consumers to begin the process of pension planning. Our view is that the same information available on Simpler Annual Statements, with the addition of charges displayed in £ and %, will help consumers make the right decisions. Transparency is key and there should be no quibbles from the incumbents, as there are already regulations requiring them to make this information available.

Stronger reforms of non-workplace pensions

After seeing their pension information, consumers will wish to take control of their money and consolidation may well be an appropriate choice. Pensions Dashboards can and should exist in a world of well-governed defaults. The Financial Conduct Authority is currently consulting on defaults in non-workplace pensions. Mandating a single, well-governed, charge-capped default for each and every pension provider will help prevent and mitigate the very reasonable concern that consumers will exchange good workplace pensions for inferior and expensive products.

PensionBee writes to the Director of Corporate Governance at Legal & General
Our CEO, Romi Savova, writes an open letter to Sacha Sadan, Director of Corporate Governance at Legal & General.

Dear Sacha,

Thank you for taking the time to meet regarding Shell, a key holding in the Future World Plan, of which PensionBee, through its customers, represents one of the largest holdings.

We were delighted to onboard the Future World Plan in 2017, because as a company, we believe it is important to change the world by making your voice heard. I believe we can achieve so much more through activism than through pure divestment. I know that Legal & General also believes in the purpose of the plan to build a better future world.

The strength of the Future World Plan is through its engagement and through pressure to change the behaviour of major global companies, including the world’s biggest polluters. Consequently, we have celebrated in the successes of the plan, including Shell’s commitment to link carbon emissions to executive pay in 2018 and the divestment of ExxonMobil when it failed to engage with investors in June 2019.

However, I have recently become concerned about the ongoing inclusion of Shell in the top 10 holdings of the Future World Plan. If there is one thing I have learned over the last five years, it is to always listen to our customers and their concerns. While Shell has made some progress in the right direction, our customers are asking us on a daily basis whether Shell’s business model is sufficiently transitioning to a low carbon economy to warrant continued inclusion in this responsible investment plan.

The Guardian has recently reported that Shell is independently forecast to increase its carbon emissions by 38% by 2030, by increasing its crude oil production by more than half and its gas production by over a quarter. At the same time, it is widely understood that major oil companies must cut their carbon emissions by 35% in order to achieve the goals of the Paris Agreement. This is a puzzling situation and one that is compounded by Shell’s refusal to disclose its future production schedule and whether it is indeed on track to meet its global obligations.

I would be grateful if you could share your insights on this matter and whether you continue to believe that Shell will do the right thing by our planet. I would also be grateful if you could outline the tangible next steps we and our customers should expect from Shell that will demonstrate its commitment to the Paris Agreement and specifically to reducing carbon emissions as required.

In the interest of making sure our customers know their voice is being heard, I will publish this letter on Friday.

Kind regards,

Romi Savova

Chief Executive Officer of PensionBee

Celebrating 5 years of PensionBee
Our CEO, Romi, and our CTO, Jonathan, look back over everything that's happened at PensionBee over the past five years.

What a whirlwind! It’s been five years this week since PensionBee was born. It’s fair to say that this milestone has crept up on us rather quickly. We’ve enjoyed taking a look back through the PensionBee archives to see what’s been going on.

First and foremost, we have to thank our fabulous customers - who’ve been signing up in their thousands - and who trust us to make pensions simple and engaging. We’ve frequently chosen to feature our customers in our adverts, and it’s been great to bring their stories to a wider audience in the TV ads we launched this year. For those of you who haven’t seen our TV ads yet, you can hear from Tony and Lucille in these YouTube videos.

First and foremost, we have to thank our fabulous customers

Another huge thank you has to go to the equally wonderful PensionBee team. Helping our customers look forward to a happy retirement is the motivation to get up every day and do what they do, and we think they’ve been doing a damn fine job of it. We’re so proud of the team (there’s over 100 of us now!), and the incredible diversity they bring to PensionBee. Our team have a raft of secret lives, from Glastonbury rockstar (Matt, our Head of Design), to seafood entrepreneur (Nasrin, from our A-team), to political activist (Bat, in our tech team) and many more. We’ve built a lovely supportive culture based around our values that binds us together. Our Head of Operations, Tess, has been writing a blog series this year diving into each of the values and what it means to us.

2019 has been a big year in itself - we’ve launched three new pension plans, broke through _higher_rate_personal_savings_allowance million of assets under administration, and earned our 1,000th Trustpilot review, not to mention picking up a bevvy of awards. We’ve also made a whole raft of product improvements, including a new retirement planner, speeding up your tax top ups and withdrawals, and we became the first pension provider to adopt the new Simpler Annual Statement.

A great moment was when Romi put her headset on and became a BeeKeeper for a week in January.

Our CEO Romi answering a phone

This not only helped out the team during a busy time, but was a great experience talking to customers about their issues and learning how the PensionBee front line has changed.

We’ve also been absolutely delighted to welcome Michelle Cracknell onto our board of directors. Michelle joins us from The Pensions Advisory Service, and brings a wealth of experience understanding the problems savers face when it comes to their pensions.

An industry in transition

Looking back to when we started in 2014, it feels almost like a different time in the pensions industry. For one thing, the Pension Freedoms that allowed you to take money out of a pension from the age of 55 were not due to become active until the following April. Auto-Enrolment into workplace pensions had started, but had not reached past the larger employers. 2015 was arguably when UK savers had several reasons for taking an interest in their pensions for the first time in a long time.

The transfer process was often long, arduous and paper-based

This is when the problems in exerting consumer choice in pensions came to the fore: complex, expensive products, with high (and often hidden) management fees; and when you did find a product you liked, the transfer process was often long, arduous and paper-based. It’s no surprise that PensionBee’s first service - finding and combining your old pensions into a new, online plan - remains our most popular.

So what’s changed in that picture in five years? The pensions industry is changing, partly driven by the regulators mandating changes that help consumers, and partly by consumers moving to better products. The Pensions Dashboard is one of the major headlines, promising to centralise information about all your pension savings. We think that will make a huge difference, but it’s still a few years away (Romi’s recent appointment to the Steering Group will surely help…).

In the meantime, 2018’s Open Banking has welcomed pensions under its wider Open Finance umbrella, and the introduction of GDPR in the same year is a further push towards digitisation and a consumer-centred business. Fees have come down a lot - the regulator introducing a 0.75% fee cap on the default funds of Auto-Enrolment pensions in 2015 has had a big impact on people’s expectations, and many other schemes have brought costs down in an effort to win over newly engaged savers.

There’s still a long way to go to make the industry digital by default

We’ve seen increased adoption of digital pension transfers, and an improvement in the average transfer time (remember it used to take longer to transfer a pension than to travel to Mars?). But in a world where PensionBee needs four robots to sign letters with a fountain pen in order to save our customers the hassle, there’s still a long way to go to make the industry digital by default.

Any story of the last five years in the pension industry would not be complete without mentioning the rise in interest in the Environmental, Social and Governance (ESG) sector of investment. ESG has grown from nowhere in the mid 2000s to be a major investment category, and the increasing global awareness of climate change is fueling further growth. PensionBee introduced the Future World Plan in 2017 in response to rising demand for a greener pension. We continue to hear demands for greater transparency and social impact, and we’re excited about the direction this is going and how we can help our customers use their savings to make an impact.

So, what’s next?

It seems appropriate to close by thinking about the next five years - what will pensions feel like by 2024? We know there are some significant challenges here - the average pension is still a world away from the slick, modern financial services we’ve all become accustomed to on our phone apps and online. There is a long way to go to deliver real transparency in fees and investments. But we’re really excited by the prospect of being able to lead the charge here, and we’re grateful to all our customers for giving us the honest feedback we need to understand what you need.

On that note, we’ve had a lot of those customers tell us that when it comes to taking money out of a pension, it still feels clunky and old-fashioned. So we asked them to tell us what a pension would be like if it were as easy to use as a bank account, we listened, and then we got building. Stay tuned in 2020…

To all our customers, the wonderful PensionBee team and the investors and supporters who have got us through the ups and downs of the last five years - a huge thank you and here’s to the next!

Thank you, from Jonathan and Romi.

Jonathan and Romi sat in front of the PensionBee logo

The next step in our journey
This Saturday, 14 November, we were delighted to share our exciting news that PensionBee is seeking a listing on the London Stock Exchange.

This Saturday, 14 November, we were delighted to share our exciting news that PensionBee is seeking a listing on the London Stock Exchange.

A listing is the natural next step in our development, and we are very excited by the potential that comes with being a public company. It will allow us to vigorously keep pursuing our vision: to live in a world where everyone can look forward to a happy retirement.

As with any significant event in the company’s development, we aim to keep our customers close on the journey.

Why are we exploring a listing of PensionBee?

PensionBee has always envisaged making the transition from being a private company to a public one. A listing on the London Stock Exchange will increase the profile of PensionBee and enable us to access capital, which we will invest in continuing to grow the business. Through the public listing process itself, we will reach even more people with our transformative personal pension.

As a company that maintains the highest standards of governance, including a Board that consists of predominantly independent directors, we already meet many of the stringent requirements placed on public companies. PensionBee recently announced the appointment of Mary Francis CBE as our Senior Independent Director. Mary’s impressive background includes non-executive roles at the Bank of England and Barclays among many other publicly listed companies. Our Chairman, Mark Wood CBE, has been with the business for many years.

PensionBee’s growth to date has been stellar. With over £1.2 billion in assets under administration on behalf of over 65,000 invested customers as well as the pipeline of new pension assets we expect from our 115,000 active customers, we know we are on track to helping millions of people achieve the retirement they want.

How and when will PensionBee list?

PensionBee is exploring a listing on the High Growth Segment of the London Stock Exchange’s Main Market. The High Growth Segment is exclusively designed for rapidly growing companies. The only British company to have listed there is Just Eat, and we hope that we spark a strong trend of exciting companies deciding to take advantage of the High Growth Segment. We’ve been really encouraged and welcome the support we have received from the London Stock Exchange so far. While we considered alternative venues, PensionBee is ultimately a British company and we will be proud to be a London listed company.

We are currently in the preparatory phases of planning and once this phase is finalised, it is likely that the listing is completed in the next 12-18 months, market conditions permitting.

What does a listing mean for our customers?

It’s “business as usual” at PensionBee and we continue to work hard at developing and delivering the UK’s most loved pension product. To that end, we have a robust plan of new feature launches, including most recently our Fossil Fuel Free Plan, created specifically following requests from our customers.

Of course, with such a significant corporate milestone underway and our unmatched commitment to PensionBee savers, we will explore offering our customers an opportunity to participate in the listing itself. We will share more information on this process at the appropriate time, but we want to be clear that a company built for our customers can also be owned by our customers.

Stay safe and wish you all a wonderful week ahead.

Becoming a publicly listed company
On Monday 26 April we were delighted to be admitted to the High Growth Segment of the Main Market of the London Stock Exchange.

Today, on Monday 26 April, we were delighted to be admitted to the High Growth Segment of the Main Market of the London Stock Exchange (PBEE). The High Growth Segment is exclusively designed for rapidly growing companies, such as PensionBee, to raise capital and to use the public market as a platform for future growth.

Back in November we announced our desire to become a public company, however the journey to this special moment truly started back in 2014 when PensionBee was founded as a result of my own poor pension experience. Becoming a publicly listed company has long been part of our strategy to be the best universal online pension provider, and we’re extremely proud to have reached this significant milestone.

Our IPO marks the culmination of seven years of hard work, and I’d like to thank my dedicated and talented colleagues for not only making this happen, but for the dedication they show to helping our customers each and every day.

I’d also like to thank our wonderful customers who are at the heart of all we do. We were thrilled that so many of you wanted to take part in this phase of our growth and applied for shares in our customer offer. We warmly welcome all of our new investors as important stakeholders in our business.

What happens next?

While it’s “business as usual” at PensionBee, our IPO will allow us to continue to grow rapidly and innovate. In practice, this means that the money we’ve raised will be used to fuel advertising and marketing initiatives so that we can help millions of people look forward to a happy retirement.

Our growth to date has been significant. As at 31 March 2021, PensionBee counted 137,000 active customers from 18-80 years of age, with c.£1.65 billion in assets under administration.

We’ll also be investing in our technology platform capabilities and enhancing our product. We have lots of new features and product innovations on our roadmap, and are excited to share them with you in due course.

Our commitment is, and always will be, to put our customers first, and we’ll continue using our voice to make positive changes in the pensions industry.

Today’s achievement is testament to our excellent track record and the strength of the opportunity that lies ahead. We look forward to thriving as a public company and embarking on the next step of our journey.

Fast fashion goes out of style for female pension savers
Our CEO, Romi Savova, discusses how socially conscious women are turning their back on the fast fashion industry.

Fast fashion retailers have made their name by offering shoppers a chance to keep up with the latest trends, at the lowest possible prices. Whether it be traditional high-street staples, such as Primark, or the new wave of online retailers, such as boohoo, the fast fashion industry has spent decades courting young female customers. Yet it seems the love affair is over, as young socially conscious women are turning their back on the industry.

At PensionBee, we believe in regularly surveying our customers to ensure our product continues to be aligned with the changing investment expectations of British savers. So earlier this year, we asked our customers their views on various industries their pensions were invested in.

We discovered that a majority of our customers have a strong distrust of the fast fashion industry. Not only do they believe it’s detrimental to society, but they don’t want to invest in fast fashion companies via their pension. This view was most prominent among female customers aged 30 and under (82%) despite the industry’s clear focus on this demographic.

So what’s driven this significant shift in opinion? Well increased education and understanding around the damage caused by unsustainable industries for one. A 2019 House of Commons report revealed that global textile production produces an estimated 1.2 billion tonnes of CO2 equivalent per year - more than international aviation and maritime shipping combined. The global fashion industry is also said to consume an estimated 79 billion cubic metres of fresh water annually. With the UK, sending an estimated £140 million worth of clothing to landfill each year.

These shocking statistics certainly seem to underpin this growing interest in sustainable living, and demand for sustainable investment options to match. Additional PensionBee research revealed that 94% of adults are taking steps to live more sustainable lifestyles - whether this be eating less meat, recycling or taking public transport. But even more encouragingly, this view is being widely applied to pension saving, with almost half of respondents (_scot_top_rate) preferring that their pension be invested sustainably to help drive positive change. In addition, 29% reported that they would change where their pensions are invested if it was unsustainable, and almost a quarter (24%) of young people (aged 18-34) felt so strongly that they would actively encourage others to leave that pension fund.

The industry’s association with labour exploitation in unsafe working conditions, is another component of its negative relationship with pension savers. PensionBee’s data shows that savers across all age groups and genders prioritise action on companies that treat workers unfairly, with 33% wishing to divest from companies that don’t pay the Living Wage to all of their workers.

So undoubtedly there’s a united desire to live more sustainably, with individuals making conscious decisions in their everyday lives to achieve this. More and more savers are beginning to recognise their investment power to transform the world they live in - for the better of the planet, society and their retirement.

The message from savers is loud and clear. They want fair and sustainable businesses in their pensions who will offer positive contributions for society, and subsequently provide longer-term returns.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

How can we improve the environment for female entrepreneurs in the UK?
In the UK, only one in three entrepreneurs are women and while there is a growing recognition that disparities exist between male and female entrepreneurs, it is a problem that has been going on far too long.

Despite pensions being one of the most complicated financial products to engage with, the most common question I get asked as the CEO of PensionBee is not to do with pensions, but instead my experience as a female founder.

In the UK, only one in three entrepreneurs are women and while there is a growing recognition that disparities exist between male and female entrepreneurs, it is a problem that has been going on far too long, preventing the UK economy from achieving approximately £250bn in growth.

When you look at the number of female CEOs of listed companies over the years, the situation is dire and progress has been unforgivably slow. Women do not lack the ability or desire to start and grow their own businesses, but yet they all face the same obstacle - funding. The Rose Review of Female Entrepreneurship found that female-led businesses receive less funding than businesses led by men at ‘every stage of the journey’.

This is a complex problem where, on average, women launch businesses with less capital than men and are likely to have less access to funding options as well as sponsors, mentors or professional support. In addition, venture capital (VC) funding is disproportionately invested by male investors into businesses led by men, accounting for female founders receiving less than 1% of all VC funding. Ultimately, this pattern leaves female founders starved of capital during critical points such as starting and scaling their business, meaning the circle of exclusion continues.

Recently, I was invited to an MP’s dinner to discuss how we can improve the environment for female entrepreneurs in the UK. There’s been a lot of talk about wanting to fix things, but this needs to translate into real figures. I strongly believe the only way to achieve true gender parity is to set targets now.

The Financial Conduct Authority recently mandated that listed companies have to disclose targets on the representation of women and ethnic minorities on their board and executive management, making it easier for investors to see the diversity of their senior leadership team. If a company cannot meet these targets, they need to explain why. I gladly welcome these new requirements, and would like to see them go even further. It’s time for private markets and large VC funds to face the same demands, disclosing diversity ratios annually in their partnerships and portfolios.

Similarly, while the government recently announced the launch of its new taskforce, dedicated to boosting the number of women starting fast-growing companies, funding beyond specific ‘female schemes’ has often been unfairly distributed. It was reported that just over 1% of all funding from the Future Fund - the government’s start-up rescue package during the pandemic - went to teams led by women. In comparison, around _basic_rate went to companies led entirely by men and the remainder was for those with mixed gender teams. If we are to truly tackle the funding barrier, government funding programs need to lead by example.

Finally, not only should pay gap reporting be a mandatory ask for any company operating in the UK, but public targets should also be necessary for all reporting companies. The gender pay gap is almost exclusively framed as an issue women should be solving themselves, and while there are actions women can take to fight the cause, solely placing the burden on the recipient of the problem is neither effective, nor fair. Equal pay for equal work is fundamentally the best way to ensure that we can build a strong pipeline of female talent in our economy, while public targets will help ensure a level playing field for future generations of female entrepreneurs.

What you need to know about pensions right now
Our CEO, Romi Savova, discusses what savers need to know in an uncertain pension environment.

Pensions have been in the news a lot lately. This is a time of great national anxiety and retirement worries can become especially pronounced when we witness economic turmoil and disruption around us. I’ve had the opportunity to discuss the latest developments with some of our customers and thought I’d share my thoughts here in case they’re useful to others. In sum, this has been a rocky time in financial markets, but there are opportunities for savers to enhance their future retirement readiness and strategies to help mitigate some of the negative effects of the external economic environment on pension pots today.

First of all, let me mention that the majority of newsflow at the moment is focused on defined benefit pensions, which reflect the promise of an employer to pay a final salary to former employees. Because of an array of accounting rules and associated investment strategies, many of these pension schemes have engaged in complex derivatives that are generating a need for them to sell assets, such as bonds and equities, in order to meet the collateral calls of their trading counterparties. The Bank of England has had to support pension funds by buying these assets. In short, while the situation sounds precarious and indeed may be for some of the institutions involved, the current consensus view is that there is little additional risk to the actual pensions that pensioners are receiving or may receive because ultimately the promise of the employer is intact and even if the employer’s promise falters, the Pension Protection Fund stands ready to step in.

While there is little direct impact on defined contribution pensions, such as the PensionBee Personal Pension, financial markets are interlinked and the chaos in the defined benefit pensions market has rattled global capital markets, which do indeed affect defined contribution pensions. This year has been particularly challenging for equities, bonds and the pound owing to interest rate tightening and the war in Ukraine, all of which would have contributed to declining pension balances with all pension providers in the country. Indeed, the only way to have avoided a balance drop this year would have been to invest in some combination of cash and commodities, an unlikely and highly risky approach to pension investment. Commodities are known to be volatile investments and cash itself would likely have had a negative real return after the effects of persistently high inflation in 2022. While poor pension performance across the whole country is likely to be of little consolation to those nearing retirement, it’s important to recognise that these types of economic environments, and their consequent impact on pensions, generally cannot be avoided. On the contrary, they’re considered to be a part of pension investments and one of the reasons why pensions have long-term returns of about 7% per year. Eventually markets will recover.

So given the current situation, what can and should you do? Well that depends. If you’re far from retirement and still mid-career, generally speaking, the accepted approach is to ride it out. If you’re closer to retirement and can even withdraw your pension, you may be wondering whether it’s better to simply take your pension money out and put it in the bank, thereby avoiding the losses of any additional market drops. That is usually not a good idea because you will ‘lock in’ your loss and miss out on the eventual market recovery. If you can wait until the recovery, your pension may be better served. You may also wonder whether you should switch plans, perhaps moving to a cash-like, lower risk plan. Again, this is a personal decision, but it’s important to consider that a loss is likely to be locked in and a lower risk plan will usually come with lower returns (that is why it’s a lower risk plan). If you must withdraw from your pension plan, it’s considered good practice to withdraw as little as possible so as to leave as much invested to take advantage of the eventual recovery. In the meantime, it’s important to be aware that markets could fall further, so you must be comfortable with your decision.

Finally, you should consider whether you can increase your pension contributions. It may seem counterintuitive, but in periods of downturn markets are often referred to as being ‘on sale’. Because markets tend to recover over the long-term, this may be an opportunity to invest in your retirement while prices are low and take advantage of the subsequent recovery. How long that may take is still unknown, but bear markets do occur throughout history and you can consider some analysis on averages and extremes.

Pension decisions are personal and this commentary should not be regarded as advice, but it’s in line with the guidance provided to pension companies by the Financial Conduct Authority during times of downturn. Take the time to think about which approach works best for you and to map out a financial plan that matches your expenditure, your opportunity to save and your pension withdrawals (if you’re able to make them). If you are over 50, speak to Pension Wise. As always, we at PensionBee are here to support our customers.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

Our journey to one million Registered Customers
Our CEO, Romi Savova, discusses PensionBee's journey to a million Registered Customers.

Back in 2014 when I founded PensionBee, after a negative experience trying to move my own pension after changing jobs, the pensions industry was a mess. Archaic systems, excessive fees, and complex paperwork were the ‘norm’. For some providers they still are, even eight years later.

Our mission’s to make pensions simple so everyone can save for a happy retirement, and we’ve been laser-focused on that goal ever since. Reaching the milestone of one million Registered Customers is quite an achievement, which wouldn’t have been possible without the ongoing support and trust of our wonderful customers.

We’re listening to our eco conscious savers like Hannah

Image of Hannah

Hannah, PensionBee customer since 2020.

Regularly surveying our customers and championing their voices in the pensions industry is a key part of PensionBee’s work. So when in early 2020 customers in the Future World Plan began sharing their concerns about climate change with us, we welcomed their feedback. In response we made it our mission to build a pension that balances saving for retirement while excluding fossil fuel producers, launching our Fossil Fuel Free Plan in December 2020. It invests in over 1,400 global companies and is one of the first mainstream funds of its kind to completely exclude firms with proven or probable reserves of oil, gas or coal, as well as tobacco companies, manufacturers of controversial weapons and persistent violators of the UN Global Compact.

In July 2021, we invited customers in the plan to share their views again on the current exclusion policy and learned that most expressed a strong interest in developing the impact of th addressing the world’s great social and environmental problems, allowing savers to use their pensions to invest in companies that have measurable, positive environmental and/or social outcomes.

We’re proud to champion sustainable investing as the future of engagement in pensions, and wholeheartedly believe that everyone should have the optie plan further. In response, we again scoured the market for a suitable product and couldn’t find one. Designed in collaboration with BlackRock, our new Impact Plan invests exclusively in companieson to use their investment for good - transforming the planet, society and their retirement for the better.

We’re innovating for our retired customers like Andrew

Image of Andrew

Andrew, PensionBee customer since 2019.

We’re constantly innovating and setting new standards of transparency and convenience in an industry that hasn’t adapted with advances in technology and consumer behaviour in decades. We’ve found a way to connect with a generation that has long been forgotten by the legacy providers, by creating a product that gives people a sense of optimism about their future, as they know they are saving regularly for the retirement they expect and deserve.

According to the Pensions and Lifetime Savings Association (PLSA), 77% of savers don’t know how much they’ll need in retirement. In 2018 we became the first pension provider to utilise Open Banking, enabling customers to see their complete financial position, with their live pension balance displayed alongside their live current account balance in some of the UK’s most popular money management apps.

As over 69% of our invested customers have installed our mobile app, we’ve made several updates to make it even easier to manage your retirement income from your phone. These include our 60-second ‘Easy bank transfer‘ contribution feature, personalised tax codes for withdrawing customers and a highly detailed transfer tracker.

Earlier this year we were excited to bring the withdrawal feature to our mobile app. When the time comes to start withdrawing from your pension it should be simple and stress-free. That’s why this year, we’ve launched our regular withdrawals feature to do just that. Customers like Andrew can now request a withdrawal so that they can receive a monthly payment on a selected date, without needing to make a request each month.

We’re simplifying pensions for our self-employed customers like Mary

Image of Mary

Mary, PensionBee customer since 2021.

The self-employed have long been underserved by the pensions industry and without the benefits of Auto-Enrolment, this group is significantly disadvantaged when it comes to saving for retirement. Just 16% of self-employed workers pay into a pension, causing millions to retire without adequate savings.

In January 2021, we launched a flexible product for self-employed customers, enabling them to start a new pension with no minimum contributions. Self-employed customers can make one-off or regular contributions via bank transfer online or via the PensionBee app, from personal or business bank accounts, as a sole trader or a limited company respectively.

We’re championing the needs of our customers

Image of Zahid

Zahid, PensionBee customer since 2021.

We put our customers at the heart of everything we do. Now, with more than a million Registered Customers putting their trust in us and over £3 billion in Assets under Administration from our Invested Customers, we’re continuing to champion their calls for a simpler, accessible pension landscape.

The industry urgently needs to innovate so that consumers can enjoy the same basic switching rights, as seen in other essential services and utilities. Legislating for a 10-day pension switch guarantee is an essential next step to help build trust and drive better engagement with pension saving, particularly in today’s tough economic climate.

In this day and age, no consumer should be prevented from switching pension providers due to lengthy transfer times from outdated paper processes. The technology to simplify pension saving exists, and all providers must utilise it, so that everyone can take charge of their pension savings and look forward to a happy retirement.

We’re very proud of our work empowering savers to take control of their finances. We look forward to continuing to listen to the needs of our customers, to championing their voices. We’re here to help savers take control of their savings with the introduction of new tools, uniquely designed to help navigate high inflation and complicated tax rules, to help them better plan their retirement savings.

We’re campaigning for a better pensions industry for everyone. We look forward to working with the government, the industry and all stakeholders to ensure that the pensions industry continues to evolve to meet the changing needs and desires of consumers. As this milestone shows, consumers are aching for a pension industry that works for them.

Notes

1. Registered Customers are PensionBee customers who have started the sign up process and have submitted at least a name and an email address.

2. Invested Customers are customers with an account that holds pension assets in PensionBee plans.

Thank you! Your submission has been received!
Oops! Something went wrong while submitting the form.

E29: Pensions vs. cash - which is best? With Holly Mackay and Martin Parzonka

01
Jul 2024

The following is a transcript of our monthly podcast, The Pension Confident Podcast. Listen to episode 29, watch on YouTube, or scroll on to read the conversation.

PHILIPPA: Hello and welcome back to The Pension Confident Podcast. My name is Philippa Lamb. Now, last year we discussed the pros and cons of Pensions vs. ISAs and which was the smartest place to put your savings. Today we’ve got another head-to-head: pensions vs. cash. Since the start of 2022, the Bank of England has raised the base interest rate 13 times! It’s no surprise then that savers are reconsidering where to put their money. But you know where you are with cash, right? Put it in a savings account in your bank and it’s there when you want it. But if the interest rate you’re getting doesn’t keep pace with inflation, those savings could actually lose purchasing power over time. With your pension, you’d usually expect your money to benefit from long-term growth. But you can’t get at your cash - it’s locked away til you reach your retirement age. And of course, that could be decades away. So, what matters most to you? Easy access to your money or making it work harder? And how can you make the most of both?

Today’s guests are trying to get their teeth into those questions. Holly Mackay is the Founder and CEO of Boring Money, a financial website designed to help ‘normal people’ cut through the jargon and better understand their savings, investments and pensions. Hello Holly.

HOLLY: Hi, Philippa.

PHILIPPA: From PensionBee, we’re joined again by Martin Parzonka, he’s their VP Product, and we’ve had him on the podcast before. Welcome back.

MARTIN: Thank you. Happy to be here.

PHILIPPA: The usual disclaimer before we start, please remember that anything discussed on this podcast shouldn’t be regarded as financial advice or legal advice. And when investing, your capital is at risk.

How does inflation eat away at our money?

PHILIPPA: Now, you two are going to hate me now, because I’ve got a little maths question for you.

MARTIN: Morning maths!

PHILIPPA: I thought we’d start with the tough ones. OK, imagine it’s five years ago, it’s 2019. You go shopping, you spend £100, and you come home with big bags full of shopping. Here’s the question: if you went out today and bought the exact same items, how much do you think you’d have to spend?

HOLLY: Five years? Well, we know inflation has been pretty ugly.

PHILIPPA: Yeah.

HOLLY: And we know it got to over a high, at one point of 11%. So, I’m going to guess about, I’m going to guess about _lower_earnings_limit because I know you get [less]... Well, everyone knows that, right? You just go to your local supermarket; you don’t get as much for that same £100. So, _lower_earnings_limit.

PHILIPPA: _lower_earnings_limit from Holly. Martin?

MARTIN: I think inflation has been, as you say, running about 11% recently. I think the stats I saw were that the basket of goods [is] probably about 3_personal_allowance_rate higher, depending on what it is.

PHILIPPA: So, you’re saying £130?

MARTIN: Yeah, £130.

PHILIPPA: Holly wins!

HOLLY: Yes!

PHILIPPA: £123.38. But pretty good, both of you, I’ve got to say.

HOLLY: In five years.

PHILIPPA: I know, it’s a lot.

HOLLY: That’s hardcore.

Shopping around for the best rate

PHILIPPA: That’s inflation in a nutshell. Just one of the things we need to balance when we’re thinking about where to keep our savings. Let’s start with the obvious question on that. Why wouldn’t you keep all your money at your bank, in a current account or a savings account? It’s simple, it’s safe - why not?

HOLLY: I mean, I might jump in there. The first thing I’ll say, possibly controversially, is if people have any form of cash savings, your bank is... It’s highly likely that’s the worst place on Earth you could leave your money in your bank’s current account. Because one thing with, particularly the high street banks, is loyalty simply doesn’t pay. So, if you’re banking with any of the big names out there, don’t assume that they’ll look after you. Because the reality is they don’t. So, we have to shop around, we have to look at other options for our money. And it’s easy, isn’t it? Life’s busy, there’s three million things to do on that to-do list. But if you have any sizable chunk of cash savings and it’s in your current account, honestly, you may as well finish listening to this podcast and go and throw some money out of the window, because you’re not getting what you should be.

PHILIPPA: OK, what about bank savings rates? I mean, is that better if you put it in a savings account?

MARTIN: I think they pray on inertia as well. So, they know that you’re in a current account. And like Holly’s saying, they’re not going to do much for you because you’re there already, right? People don’t like to switch.

PHILIPPA: They’ve captured you already.

MARTIN: They’ve captured you. And so, they’ll push savings accounts at you, but they’re actually not that much better because they just rely on you to go for the easy option. “I already know this bank. I’m just going to open that savings account”. And oftentimes, they’re also not that great. A little bit better than the current account, but they lock you in and you could get better rates elsewhere.

PHILIPPA: Because they do play on the idea that we think it’s quite hard to move accounts as well, don’t they? Which now it really isn’t, is it?

HOLLY: No, it’s really much easier than it used to be. And the new bank you move to will quite often do a lot of the heavy lifting for you. And just to give people a sense, I mean, in my particular bank, the current account, the attached savings account there currently offers around about, it’s under 2%.

PHILIPPA: Really?

HOLLY: But it’s not hard to go out there and find rates that are double that! So, I think shopping around is a really good idea. There’s not just one pot of money. This is what we tend to think about: “what shall I do with any spare cash I have?” There are lots of different pots that we can use. And so, I think it’s really important to think about, “what do I actually need that money to do for me?” And it might be that you have some money in an easy-access savings account. There might be some you can set aside for a year, say, and then you’ll get more interest on that. So, I think the first exercise is mentally think about the jam jars and what are you going to put in each of them? What do you need your savings to do for you?

PHILIPPA: Yeah, so stop thinking about it as just a pot of cash.

MARTIN: Yeah, for sure. I like the jam jars concept. There’s also, to remove some inertia, there’s products out there that, not offered by high street banks necessarily, but that roll up cash. I’m someone that I don’t really like cash, whether it’s controversial or not. My risk profile is different, [I’m] a bit younger, so I like to make my money work for me. That said, you still want to have some cash on hand for bills. Obviously, you need to operate money to do stuff, to buy groceries. What you want to be able to do is take the thought out of saving that. So, there are some products out there that’ll just roll up (or round up) money that you’ve got that you spend, put it somewhere else, and they generally have a higher interest rate than a high street bank. So that’s something to consider as well.

PHILIPPA: In fairness to bank accounts, I suppose we should say, there are no complex investment rules here. You’re saving, you’re not investing really. I guess you can think of that as a plus point. I think a lot of people do, don’t they? They think, I understand this. I put the money in the bank. There’s nothing complex here for me to understand. If I want it, I can get it. But we shouldn’t be thinking that.

HOLLY: You’re absolutely right. With cash, you know the deal. The deal is pretty clear. But I think we’re just saying, make sure you get the best deal out there. Actually, there are quite often, it’s the challenger banks. We’ve talked about some of the newer brands out there, they’re hungry for new customers. Yeah, they work hard for you. They’re the ones with the good rates. Actually, they’re the ones with the better mobile experience as well. It can be super easy to set up an account. You could do it within 10 minutes on a commute, really.

Building an emergency fund

PHILIPPA: So, as you say, ideally, we want to keep some cash handy. I think everyone feels that if you can, just in case. It’s that ‘just in case’ feeling, isn’t it? If we’re thinking about that jam jar, the cash I like to keep where I can get it whenever I want it, how much should we set aside? I’m not talking about a figure here; I’m talking about a proportion.

MARTIN: I think the rule of thumb is three months of expenses. I think it’s important, again, where you are in your life stage and your risk profile to make your money work for you. But you’ve got to just look at what you can do without. If expenses do come and there’s something unexpected, make sure you can at least draw down from your investments. What I mean by that is if you’re putting money into something that’s not cash, can you still access it? So, stocks and shares, for example, can you sell them if you need to?

PHILIPPA: Immediately.

MARTIN: Immediately, right? And oftentimes it’s pretty liquid, which means you can get the cash out of that quite quickly. There’s obviously a risk with that. If markets have gone down, you might be selling at a loss, which you need to be ready for.

PHILIPPA: Yeah. I mean, if we’re thinking I’ve always thought three months sounds like a lot. I understand it’s a nice idea, but if you add it all up, it’s a lot. Can we maybe drill down into the actual bits of that expenditure that you really do need to save for? Because we all spend a lot of money over the course of three months, and some of it we probably don’t need to spend, do we? So, is it about actually picking the bones out of that? It’s the rent or the mortgage payment. What do you think, Holly?

HOLLY: Perhaps controversially, no. I’m not sure that I think three months is a lot to have in cash. I think if you talk to financial planners, they’ll typically say it’s between three and six months. Now, I know that sounds huge, but then you think, OK, we’re not in the most certain environment at the moment. What would happen, say, if you lost your job? What would that mean for your rent payments? So, it’s just that comfort blanket around us. Of course, if you’ve got kids, the never-ending voracious cheeping beaks that need to be fed, you might factor that in. So, it does depend, I think, if you’ve got dependents or not. For me, it’s three months as a minimum, as a starting point for our financial plan.

PHILIPPA: So, if we’re thinking about that as one of your jam jars, and I really love this jam jar idea, is that a savings goal in itself? If people are listening to this thinking, “there’s no way I could set aside, right now, three months money, let alone six months money”. Is that the first thing you should be saving for, actually, your emergency cash jam jar?

HOLLY: Absolutely. That for me, is the... I think we all have steps on our financial journey, and there’s an order we should do things in. The first, actually, even before that, would be to pay off any expensive debt. So once that’s done, then absolutely, I think people’s first goal is to get to that three months of outgoings.

PHILIPPA: And just to spell out the reasons for that, if you’ve got debt like that, you’re paying far more in interest, then you’ll gain wherever you put it in savings.

HOLLY: Absolutely. In savings, in an ISA, in whatever it might be, is getting rid of that debt is the very first starting point.

MARTIN: Actually, with the base rate increasing, I think credit cards now are like 3_personal_allowance_rate. It’s insane!

PHILIPPA: Insane. So, if you’re not paying that off every month, that’s a huge bill, isn’t it?

State benefits that are impacted by savings

PHILIPPA: Just sticking with cash, are there any downsides to holding a lot of cash in savings? I’m thinking about state benefits here. Do you risk losing access to state benefits if you’ve got quite a lot of cash saved?

MARTIN: Yeah. If you carry too much cash, too much in inverted commas, it can affect your Pension Credit. If you have _money_purchase_annual_allowance or less in savings, it won’t affect your Pension Credit.

PHILIPPA: Just remind people what Pension Credit is.

MARTIN: So, it’s the amount of extra money that the government will give you if you’re on a low income and you’re of State Pension age.

PHILIPPA: OK. Other benefits that you might risk if you’re holding too much cash?

MARTIN: Yeah, cash can also impact your Universal Credit, which is a payment to help with living costs if you’re on a low income. So, £16,000 is the cut-off point of savings you can have before Universal Credit is impacted.

PHILIPPA: OK. So just to be clear, if you, and it’s your cohabiting partner as well, isn’t it? If you’ve got £16,000 or less in savings, investments, that’s not a problem for Universal Credit. I’m assuming here that pension savings, we’re going to get on to pensions later, they don’t count towards this? That’s not a problem for benefits.

MARTIN: No, that doesn’t affect your Pension Credit.

What are the rules on cash savings?

PHILIPPA: OK, that’s great. Shall we move on to the options about where you keep this cash cushion we’ve been talking about? Best places?

HOLLY: I think we have to not just chase headline rates. For me, it’s about what institution is looking after my money. I have to say I’m a big fan of NS&I, that’s backed by the government. So, for me...

PHILIPPA: This is National Savings?

HOLLY: That’s exactly right. NS&I is backed by the government. They’re the last man standing, effectively. If everything goes to pot, everything goes to seed, NS&I should be the last financial institution still there. They won’t always pay the best, but they’re typically pretty competitive. I feel very secure having my money there. That, for me, is a consideration when we’re looking at financial institutions. Typically, some of the ‘sexier’ brands out there are some of the newer ones, and I do worry a bit about how they’re funded, who’s behind them. Of course, money is protected for us by the government. If a bank or a financial institution signs up to what you’ll see online as FSCS, the Financial Services Compensation Scheme, then anything up to £85,000 is typically safe with that institution.

MARTIN: Well, yeah, on the topic of FSCS, I guess shameless plug, at PensionBee, the way we structure our investments, they’re life-wrapped policies, and so they benefit from 10_personal_allowance_rate protection. If the financial institution that holds an investment, so with us, it’s either BlackRock, State Street, or Legal & General. Honestly, if one of those goes under, there are big problems in the world.

PHILIPPA: Yes, globally.

MARTIN: That said, customers’ funds are protected up to 10_personal_allowance_rate. Now, it’s important to note that when we say safe in inverted commas or safer, it doesn’t mean that money can’t fluctuate. And if markets do drop, the money will drop. So, customers aren’t protected from that, but they’re protected from those institutions defaulting or going bankrupt.

PHILIPPA: Yeah. So, these are all significant. I mean, it takes a while to save the money. You don’t want to lose it, do you? If things go badly. What about Cash ISAs?

HOLLY: That’s the whole point of a Cash ISA, I think, is - I love ISAs. They’re like Tupperware pots. You stick your money in, and the taxman can’t get his hands on what’s inside that pot.

PHILIPPA: So, this isn’t a jam jar?

HOLLY: It’s not a jam jar. God, you can [with] tell my food analogies [that] I’m feeling a bit greedy today! They’re in that pot. This is really important because the tax take for all of us is going up and up and up - and is just going to keep going up. So, ISAs are awesome. But, spoiler alert, we also get a certain amount of money every year we can earn in interest and not pay tax on, whether it’s in an ISA or not.

PHILIPPA: And that’s currently?

HOLLY: That’s the Personal Savings Allowance. It depends on how much tax you pay. If you’re a higher rate taxpayer, you can earn _higher_rate_personal_savings_allowance a year in interest before you pay any tax on it. If you’re a basic rate taxpayer -

PHILIPPA: Which is most of us.

HOLLY: Yeah, you can earn _basic_rate_personal_savings_allowance a year in interest. For me, the smart move, I think, is to look at your first lump sum of money, any cash savings, and go for the good rates. And quite often, those are not in Cash ISAs. But just make sure that the interest you earn on that every year isn’t going to go above that Personal Savings Allowance. So, _higher_rate_personal_savings_allowance if you’re a higher rate taxpayer or _basic_rate_personal_savings_allowance if you’re a basic rate taxpayer.

PHILIPPA: That’s a lot of interest, isn’t it? Most people aren’t going to be getting that much interest on their savings. So, they’re not going to be paying any tax regardless.

HOLLY: And with current interest rates as they are, to give you an idea, if you’re a basic rate taxpayer, that would be about _isa_allowance in a savings account. That would generate about _basic_rate_personal_savings_allowance a year. So, it’s quite generous. So, for me, Cash ISAs aren’t quite as shiny as they once were because we’ve got that Personal Savings Allowance.

PHILIPPA: Interesting. What’s your take on that?

MARTIN: Yeah, I agree. I think if you’re going to take advantage of ISA allowances and the benefits that come with them, Stocks and Shares ISA, because that way you’ve got risk on. You’ve got your money working for you. Investing in stocks and shares in that ISA, generally speaking, markets will outpace inflation and interest.

PHILIPPA: Over the long-term.

MARTIN: Over the long-term. Then the benefits of not paying tax on that gain is better than not paying tax on the interest gain. Like you say, Holly, you could save that money somewhere else in a savings account that’s not in an ISA and still get the benefits of not having to pay tax on it.

Small steps to save for your future

PHILIPPA: We’re back to the jam jar idea. But this is starting to sound like a plan, isn’t it? However small the sums are, and it’s important to say that, I think, because we’ve [had] these conversations. I think a lot of people listen to it and think, all I’m talking about is maybe I could save it would be £50 a month. Why are we even having this conversation? But actually, it’s still worth thinking about that.

HOLLY: £50 a month? Yeah, it can be huge. I started working in finance in Australia, ages ago, aeons ago, and pensions were compulsory, and my employer set it up for me and they paid in, it was probably about $40 a month. And I remember at the time going, “well, that’ll buy me loads, won’t it?” And then I moved back over to the UK, forgot it was there and then tidied it up a few years ago to bring it over. And I was like, “oh my God”. Because we talk about compounding quite a lot. Here’s another analogy for me. I think it’s like building a snowman. And you start off with a tiny little ball of snow and you roll it around your garden forever, and you think, blimey, I’m going to be here all day. And then just towards the end, the bigger the snowball gets, the quicker it grows. And the same is true of our money. So, I’d say to people, even if you start a pension and you put in £10 a month, it doesn’t matter. It’s just the first step is getting started. And it does grow, that snowman does kick in.

PHILIPPA: See, I’m worried about the snowman idea, because my idea of a snowman is that you build this snowman - and then it melts!

HOLLY: I guess the melting is maybe you spending your pension in retirement, swanning around the world having a laugh!

Are pensions ‘hot’?

PHILIPPA: But what you say is absolutely right. I think this is a good moment. Let’s leave cash behind for a moment. Talk about pensions. The basics, they can be hard to understand. I think there’s no denying it. They can feel very complicated to ordinary people.

HOLLY: I wish I was in charge of marketing for the government because I’d run a really good pension [campaign]. Pensions are hot!

PHILIPPA: Go on then. Give us your elevator pitch.

HOLLY: You get ‘free money’. I mean, if you’re a basic rate taxpayer and you put £80... Let’s forget the word pension. You just put it into this ‘account thing’. You put £80 into this ‘account thing’. The government wave their fairy wand and that pops another £20 in that pension account, so that £80 becomes £100. Just like that, you don’t have to do anything other than put that money in. I think that’s really poorly understood as still we don’t explain that core benefit to people very well. Now, why does that happen? It’s basically bribery from the government. They’re patting you on the head, Philippa, and saying: “Philippa, we’d really rather not have to pay for everything you need when you’re really old”.

PHILIPPA: When you’re old and needy.

HOLLY: “So please, Philippa, be a good girl, put £80 in a pension, and to encourage you, we’ll give you back all the tax you paid on that money”. Roll it all up. So, bingo, you’ve got £100. And that’s such a fundamental benefit. It gets even hotter, Philippa, for higher rate taxpayers, because not only does that happen for them, but when they come to do an annual tax return, they get effectively another £20 on that £80 because you reduce your income in that tax return by another element because you’re a higher rate taxpayer, you’ve paid more tax, so you’re getting more tax back. So, if you pay into a pension, in any one financial year, when you come to do your tax return, you’ll be high fiving yourself because you can reduce that taxable income. And that’s a nice feeling in January.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, absolutely. At any time of the year, I think, isn’t it? And as you say, the chunks of ‘free money’ here, they’re substantial as a proportion of what you’re saving. They really are. I think it’s worth talking about workplace pensions here as well, because as you mentioned, Holly, your employer back in Australia, lobbed this what seemed like a very small amount of money into your pension pot at that time, years ago. And then it just rolled up and rolled up. This is ‘free money’ from your employer, isn’t it? And Auto-Enrolment, the government’s bid to make us all jump into that method of saving. That’s been very effective, hasn’t it?

MARTIN: It has, yeah. So, there’s a couple of things also to consider is that a lot of employers will match the contributions you’re making into a pension as well. And so, if you don’t contribute yourself, they also won’t contribute. And so, you’re losing out twice.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, that’s a good point.

HOLLY: I think everyone listening, it’s really worth it if you don’t know. This particularly happens with larger companies, bigger brands. If you don’t know, get on the phone to HR, look on the intranet, whatever, find out about this matching. If your employer matches your workplace pension, then that’s what I’d call a no-brainer, right? Because if you put in, as Martin has just said, another 1%, they’ll give you another 1%. That’s like getting a 1% pay rise.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, right there, isn’t it? They put ceilings on this, don’t they? There’s a limit to how much they’ll let you pay in because there’s a limit to how much they want to match. But well worth doing.

HOLLY: For most of us, we won’t reach that, sort of, limit. So, it’s really worth investigating. And if they do match and there are those extra contributions, there’ll be very few other places where you can get such a good return on your money.

MARTIN: Just on the point about a few places you can get that return on your money, just going back to the tax relief point that Holly was talking about earlier, it’s yeah, you’re so right. It should be shouted from the rooftops. Where else in the world will you get _corporation_tax instantly on the money you put away? That’s an amazing return.

PHILIPPA: Unless it was some crazy scheme where your money would be very much at risk.

MARTIN: Yeah, exactly right.

HOLLY: And blow up horribly!

PHILIPPA: Exactly. Terribly bad idea if someone’s offering you _corporation_tax, I’d think largely, you have to be asking some questions about that, don’t you?

The case for personal pension saving

PHILIPPA: OK, if you’ve signed up for your or you’ve been signed up for your workplace scheme, what are the arguments for setting up a personal pension as well?

MARTIN: Yeah, really good question. The benefits could be that you may want to diversify, not have all your eggs in one basket. Although that said, most plans that you’d invest into in a pension are diversified anyway. You put money...

PHILIPPA: When you say diversified, you mean?

MARTIN: Having money in the US markets, having money in UK markets, in emerging markets, Asian countries, African countries. It’s good to have that spread.

PHILIPPA: Pension funds don’t just invest in stocks and shares, do they?

MARTIN: That’s right. It’ll also be bonds. There’ll be some money held in cash as well. Commodities, property, pretty much anything you can put money into.

PHILIPPA: Commodities being things you make stuff out of, copper, gold, that sort of thing?

MARTIN: Oil.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, all that sort of thing. They have this very diverse, to use your word, range of investments. That essentially is all about insulating you from risk, isn’t it?

MARTIN: That’s right.

PHILIPPA: If something goes badly, hopefully something else is going well.

MARTIN: Yeah. It’s important also to have a look at the type of investment plan you’re putting your money into. So not all plans are like that. Some will just be 10_personal_allowance_rate company stocks, and that’s OK, depending on your risk profile. If you want that, you can have that. Some people don’t want that risk. They want it 10_personal_allowance_rate in bonds. That’s OK. Maybe two years ago it wasn’t OK. Bond markets were interesting.

PHILIPPA: Personal choice.

MARTIN: Yeah, personal choice. Exactly. That’s the point of diversification. So, we got into this point also from your question about why would you set one up?

PHILIPPA: Yes, why would you have one as well as a workplace pension? It’s all money out of your spending pot every month, isn’t it?

MARTIN: Yeah, that’s right. So, one of the things you can do by having a personal pension on the side is that if you do move employers, you can just have that with you all the time. So, roll that employer pension into your personal pension. Next employer, go to their scheme, leave them, roll it into your personal pension again.

PHILIPPA: And this brings us to a point we make so many times on the podcast, but it’s worth saying, again, you need to understand what your pension is all about. Ask your employer, don’t you? Get them to tell you because they hand you a bunch of stuff on day one. You don’t read it; you forget about it. Most people have no idea what their workplace pension is investing in or what they’re getting or what it’s worth. But your employer has to tell you all this stuff, don’t they?

HOLLY: And it’ll be, there’ll be a website. I mean, I can’t... Some of the websites will be pretty dodgy. You’ll be looking at it thinking -

PHILIPPA: “What does this mean?”

HOLLY: “This was built in 1994”, but there’ll be a number there. It’ll tell you how much you’ve got in it. It’ll tell you what the fees and charges are, and it’ll tell you where your money is invested.

PHILIPPA: So that’s definitely worth doing. We always want to know where our money is and what it’s doing. I think that’s the lesson here, isn’t it?

HOLLY: And how much it is. Just getting that number is vital. It’s a first step, really, in sorting it out. We talked about jam jars earlier. It’s just working out what you’ve got in every jam jar before you work out what to do with it.

PHILIPPA: So, we’ve said lots of great things about pensions, but I’m going to say, tell me about the downsides. The first one that comes to my mind is you can’t get the money, can you? Not until you retire.

HOLLY: It’s locked away.

MARTIN: That’s true. But it’s actually not locked away that long. It’s 55 right now before you can draw down from a pension, but 57 in a couple of years’ time. And it’ll keep increasing, likely. People are living longer, so it makes sense that you can’t access your pension for a little bit of time. Interestingly though, [in] the UK, 57 is actually quite young. In Australia, it’s _pension_age_from_2028 before you can access.

PHILIPPA: Is that right?

MARTIN: Yeah. There are benefits here to putting your money into a pension scheme. The other benefit is that the first _corporation_tax that you do draw down is tax-free [capped at £268,275]. That’s pretty cool.

PHILIPPA: When you say draw down, you mean take out?

MARTIN: Take money out of the pension. The main downside is locking it away for a while. But honestly, like I said, it’s quite young still. If that’s the only downside and you get _corporation_tax free money instantly.

HOLLY: Hang on, Martin, I’m going to cut in. 57, there’ll be -

PHILIPPA: OK, Holly, go for it.

HOLLY: Well, to me, it might not have seen that long away. She blushed! Thank God this is a podcast, not telly.

PHILIPPA: Full disclosure, Martin is the youngest person in the room.

HOLLY: Philippa, how do you know? But I think for people, particularly people in their 20s, 30s who are thinking about buying a property, you’re cautious about locking your money away into a pension. And this is where I think for people under 40, an alternative is the Lifetime ISA. This is a vehicle where you can pay in up to £4,000 a year if you’re under 40, and the government will match that with up to _basic_rate_personal_savings_allowance every year. So that’s a total of _starting_rates_for_savings_income, you could save there. There are catches with that. You have to spend that money either on buying a first property, or if you change your mind and decide not to, you can then use that for retirement. If you change your mind and take the money out sooner, you get clobbered with punitive rates. So, you have to be pretty damn sure that you’re either going to buy a property or use it for retirement. But that’s a vehicle that does give people who are saving for a property a bit of flex. It’s an alternative to a pension. There are pros and cons to both. But particularly, I think for self-employed people who don’t have those workplace contributions it’s an interesting tax wrapper to have a look at.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, it’s a fair point about the employer’s contributions. If you’re not getting those, it’s a bit of a more of a straight question where you want to put your own money, isn’t it, Martin?

MARTIN: Holly’s right. Lifetime ISAs are quite beneficial because you do have that option to either take it for retirement or for a first property. But I think there’s caps as well to that. So, it could make sense to have both.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, we’re back to the both, aren’t we? We’re back to the do it all.

HOLLY: More jam jars.

PHILIPPA: More jam jars.

HOLLY: Kitchen’s getting very busy, Philippa.

Final thoughts

PHILIPPA: I know, but I’m thinking, is this the lesson from this podcast? That’s what it is. However much you’ve got or however little you have, don’t imagine that it just needs to go in one place.

HOLLY: And I think that’s really key. And it’s that visual, what do I want this money to do for me? And there’ll be different things, different time frames. We’ve talked about the three to six months of disposable income. That’s one jam jar.

PHILIPPA: The safety cushion.

HOLLY: Then the furthest, longest one down the track is the pension. But there’s other pots to it. And an important message is they can all be quite small because I think for younger listeners in particular, it’s as important to get started and to set the habit as it is to think that you’re having an enormous financial impact.

PHILIPPA: Particularly with a pension, I suppose. Would we add to that, don’t ignore your jam jars, because if you’re paying tiny amounts in when you’re 22, when you’re 32, all being well, if you’re earning a bit more, you should be ramping up your jam jars and making your jam jars bigger. You can’t just keep on paying a tiny amount into your jam jars.

HOLLY: Nice tip there, pay yourself first. So, whenever you get a future pay rise, you can’t miss money you’ve never had. So, the first thing you do is set up a Direct Debit to come out on pay day so you can’t spend it and just hike it up, do it every, hopefully, year and align it to a pay rise.

PHILIPPA: So, the wealthier you get, the more you should be saving?

HOLLY: In theory. Sounds crazy, doesn’t it? But it’s true.

MARTIN: Avoid lifestyle creep. Just, I can get a nice flat white, I can go and get a better flat white, or I could just put that money away, right?

HOLLY: They’d all cost £4 in London anyway!

PHILIPPA: I think we’re going to wrap it up there. There was always so much more in these things, isn’t there, than you think about, but really helpful tips. Thank you very much.

HOLLY: Thank you for having me.

PHILIPPA: We’ll be back next month exploring the question: can money buy you happiness? I’d like to find out. Seriously, though, there’s a lot to talk about in this one. We’re really going to try and get a solid answer on it, so it’s going to be well worth listening to. Meanwhile, please leave us a rating. Write us a quick review in your podcast app. You know we love to hear what you think about every single episode. Remember, you can find us on YouTube and in the PensionBee app, too. Just before we go, always remember, anything discussed on the podcast shouldn’t be regarded as financial advice or legal advice. When investing, your capital is at risk. Thanks for being with us.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

Period
Market Event
FTSE World TR GBP (%)
4Plus Plan (%)
4Plus Plan’s inception – 6 Sept 2013
QE Tapering, China Interbank Crisis and its aftermath
-5.44
-2.41
3 Oct 2014 – 15 May 2015
Oil price drop, Eurozone deflation fears & Greek election outcome
-5.87
-1.77
7 Jan 2016 – 14 Mar 2016
China’s currency policy turmoil, collapse in oil prices and weak US activity
-7.26
-1.54
15 June 2016 – 30 June 2016
BREXIT referendum
-2.05
-1.07
Period
Market Event
FTSE World TR GBP (%)
4Plus Plan (%)
4Plus Plan’s inception – 6 Sept 2013
QE Tapering, China Interbank Crisis and its aftermath
-5.44
-2.41
3 Oct 2014 – 15 May 2015
Oil price drop, Eurozone deflation fears & Greek election outcome
-5.87
-1.77
7 Jan 2016 – 14 Mar 2016
China’s currency policy turmoil, collapse in oil prices and weak US activity
-7.26
-1.54
15 June 2016 – 30 June 2016
BREXIT referendum
-2.05
-1.07
Popular

Ready to boost your retirement savings?

Ready to boost your retirement savings?

Every contribution counts towards a more comfortable retirement. When your pension is in a good place, you’re in a good place.
Combine your old pensions into one simple plan
Invest with one of the world’s largest money managers
Make paper-free online withdrawals from the age of 55
Pay just one simple annual fee
  • Sign up in minutes
  • Transfer your old pensions into one new online plan
  • Invest with one of the world’s largest money managers
  • Pay just one simple annual fee
Capital at risk
Button with Google Play logo and text 'Get it on Google Play' on a black background.
No items found.
Capital at risk

Choose a self-employed pension that puts you in the driving seat

Sign up to our flexible pension plan for the self-employed and contribute as much or as little as you like, as often as you like.
Get started
When investing, your capital is at risk