E33: How to spot the signs of financial abuse with Danny Tatlow and Jaypee Soule
The following is a transcript of our monthly podcast, The Pension Confident Podcast. Listen to episode 33 or scroll on to read the conversation.
PHILIPPA: Hello. Welcome back to The Pension Confident Podcast. I’m Philippa Lamb, and today we’re talking about something we think isn’t talked about enough, financial abuse. Could it be happening to you or someone close to you? How do you spot it and what can you do about it?
Here to discuss this topic, we have Danny Tatlow, who’s Research and Policy Officer at the abuse prevention charity, Hourglass. They focus specifically on older people. From PensionBee, Jaypee Soule is with us again. She’s their VP of Second Line Compliance, and she’s seen this sort of abuse in her career in banking and pensions. Hi, both.
JAYPEE: Good to be back.
DANNY: Thank you for having me, Philippa.
The usual disclaimer before we start, please remember anything we discuss on the podcast shouldn’t be regarded as financial advice or legal advice, and when investing, your capital is at risk. Just to add, today’s conversation, it’s a sensitive topic. If you’ve been affected by anything that we talk about in this episode, do check out the show notes because you’ll find a list of resources and organisations there that can help you.
What is financial abuse and who does it impact?
PHILIPPA: So economic abuse is a legally recognised form of domestic abuse, isn’t it? And financial abuse, that can be part of it. I think we’ve all heard of it, but I was really surprised to discover that one-in-five women have been subjected to that sort of abuse. So it can really happen to anyone, can’t it?
JAYPEE: Definitely. I think it’s one-in-seven for men as well. But I find that it can happen to anyone who is vulnerable or anyone who needs care or assistance. Obviously, women are more impacted, I think, that’s just due to societal standards, but it could really happen to anyone.
PHILIPPA: Danny, as I say, you focus specifically on older people. You see this a lot?
DANNY: It’s the most prevalent type of abuse that we deal with. It makes up about _higher_rate of the cases and calls that we receive normally. Yeah, it can happen to anyone. We generally see about 6_personal_allowance_rate of the victim survivors are women, but about 30 to _higher_rate are men, too.
PHILIPPA: Sadly, this is often by a family member?
DANNY: Always, generally, by a family member or an intimate partner. Around 82% in 2023/24 of the cases we saw, the perpetrator was a family member. Normally, this is sons and daughters.
PHILIPPA: OK. This is the sort of thing that we’re talking about here. This is coercing someone about their will or lasting power of attorney, property, inheritance, that sort of thing.
DANNY: It can even be just as simple as taking money from an older person’s bank account or anyone’s bank account without their consent. Stealing or theft from inside the home, as well, as you said, as the more complex cases of lasting power of attorney abuse or coercion of housing deeds or changing of one’s will, as well as ones that are more niche, like romance, abuse, and predatory marriage.
PHILIPPA: Yeah and we’ve got what’s called, I think, ‘mate crime’ as well, haven’t we. This act of befriending a vulnerable person with the clear intent of exploiting them.
DANNY: Yeah, definitely. Mate crime or ‘cuckooing’ as well.
PHILIPPA: Cuckooing?
DANNY: Yeah, cuckooing. It’s generally seen as part of county line drug gangs, where a member will move into the house or befriend a vulnerable or older person and then sell, could be drugs, could be guns from the house.
PHILIPPA: So they just use the premises?
DANNY: Use the premises, but also could utilise the vulnerable or older person to pay off drug debts.
PHILIPPA: OK and thinking about particularly vulnerable groups, obviously I’m thinking about immigrants, perhaps with language difficulties, people with learning difficulties. I’m guessing that that’s something you see, too?
DANNY: Yeah, definitely. A lot of the cases we deal with are those that may not have mental capacity because of potentially Dementia or Alzheimer’s. Immigrants, refugees have a very tough time in accessing support because of fear that the police will turn them over to the Home Office or immigration.
PHILIPPA: Yeah. Jaypee, you work at PensionBee now, you worked in banking before, you’ve seen a lot of this, haven’t you?
JAYPEE: Definitely. Most of the cases that I’ve seen are very similar. I find that there’s a lot of familiar fraud that happens, and I say familiar because it usually happens with either a close friend, family member.
PHILIPPA: So it’s someone you know?
JAYPEE: Someone you know. Most of the time, children, sons, daughters, and it’s really, really sad because I don’t think a lot of awareness is out there because why wouldn’t you trust a family member or a friend?
PHILIPPA: Yeah, if you’re going to trust anyone, it’s going to be a family, isn’t it?
JAYPEE: But I remember when I used to work in banking, a lady who was a pensioner, she’d come in, usually to get her money for the week. She had come on one of her visits and she went to the cashier and she couldn’t take her money out because there was nothing there - she was distraught. We later found out that she had a credit card, which she was aware that she had. Her son had helped her to take one out because he’d told her it was a good idea to get one. She had a big balance and he’d used up and maxed out her credit card without her knowing. Because he also helped her to look after her letters and her bills, she had no idea that this was happening, and so her entire pension was taken.
PHILIPPA: So it just drained her entire account?
JAYPEE: Drained everything. And it went further because even her gas and electric had already stacked up because it didn’t get paid. Now, bear in mind that her son was also vulnerable. He’d lost his job and he was trying to look after his family. But nevertheless, he put his mum in a very terrible situation.
PHILIPPA: So what happened?
JAYPEE: We worked out a repayment plan for her.
PHILIPPA: How much was it? A lot of money?
JAYPEE: It was about _starting_rates_for_savings_income and obviously interest had gone on top of that. So we worked out a very, very menial amount that she’d repay every month. And that allowed her to still be able to eat. I went as far as at the time, because I felt so sorry for her, calling British Gas as well to get a payment plan sorted for her and explaining what had happened to her.
PHILIPPA: That was so sweet of you. She must have been horrified.
JAYPEE: She was horrified. She was in tears most of the time. But I think within two weeks, I was able to put a smile back on her face, and she was OK.
PHILIPPA: But she didn’t bring charges against her son, did she?
JAYPEE: No, unfortunately not and I think that’s usually the challenge when it’s a close family member or a friend, it’s that emotions get in the way. And although it was reported to the police, she decided not to press charges. So her son didn’t actually get reprimanded for what he’d done.
PHILIPPA: That’s amazing. Do you see that a lot, Danny?
DANNY: Oh, totally, Philippa. A lot of the victim survivors we deal with, they don’t want to criminalise their family members. They may not even see it themselves as abuse, but just what is owed to their family members.
PHILIPPA: It’s messy, isn’t it?
DANNY: It’s very messy, unfortunately.
The underreporting of financial abuse
PHILIPPA: It must mean it’s underreported. It must mean we don’t really know how much this goes on?
DANNY: Usually. All abuse against older people is hugely underreported, and this is for a number of reasons. Older people don’t see themselves represented as victims of abuse in the media. There are ageist attitudes that stop older people coming forward. There’s also the cultural milieu that many older people grew up in, wherein “this is a family matter”, they don’t want to get external organisations involved.
PHILIPPA: I’m wondering if digital is making this much easier because obviously - and I don’t for a second want to suggest that older people don’t understand how digital works - but I’m guessing there will be some, maybe right at the outer edge of the age we’re talking about, who haven’t got their arms around the digital world we now live in. So banking and financial paperwork, if their family members take that on and do it online, and there aren’t letters coming through the door anymore, that must make it easier because they really do completely lose control, don’t they? They don’t know what’s going on with their money.
DANNY: Yeah, there’s definitely a fear that the digital divide is ever expanding and that’s making abuse easier. With the closure of high street bank branches and the worsening ability to be actually able to talk to a human member of staff rather than AI or a chatbot, it’s much harder for many older victim survivors to realise where their money is going.
PHILIPPA: Yeah, because back in the day, you’d walk into a bank branch, wouldn’t you, and talk to someone. I mean, particularly mobility issues, transport, public transport, all that stuff, that’s not an easy thing to do, there isn’t always a local branch.
DANNY: No, and this is linked to other aspects that austerity has led us. The worsening of public transport routes - I mean it’s much harder, really, for rural-based older people to get to branches. Some bank branches have - TSB, I think they have safe spaces in their branches. Unfortunately, because of the closure of branches, these are few and far between.
PHILIPPA: So there’s a real disconnect.
DANNY: Yeah, there is, unfortunately, a real disconnect.
What are the effects of financial abuse?
PHILIPPA: Obviously, we think about consequences. Well some are for everyone, but some of them are going to vary, aren’t they, depending on what stage of your life we’re talking about. I think we can see where, perhaps for older people, the outcomes might be. But at worst, presumably at any age, this can take you to a place where you’re unable to afford the basics that you need to live?
DANNY: Yeah, definitely. We see post-abuse effects ranging from mental health issues, depression, PTSD, anxiety, withdrawal from society. But there’s also, especially for older people, but for all victims, the potential for physical-based health effects as well. I mean, it can even lead to premature death, unfortunately. As well, as you said, Philippa, the economic effects. Whereas it might be the increase of debt that they’re not able to get rid of, the loss of their house that they may have lived in for a long time, or affecting their pension.
PHILIPPA: Yeah. I mean, Jaypee, this is what you’re talking about, isn’t it? Thinking about debt. If you’re in debt and you’re just not in a position to pay it back, that’s going to put you at risk of worse outcomes, isn’t it? Because then you may have to resort to lenders that you really, ideally, wouldn’t be approaching, paying elevated levels of interest on the loans that you then have to take out.
I’m interested in what the law says about this, because obviously, theft is a criminal offence. If you’ve got someone literally taking your valuables and selling them, that’s a more straightforward, though, albeit terrible situation. But financial abuse, I’m guessing that can be harder to pin down because it can get a bit ‘he said, she said’. Is that how it goes? And so harder to actually take action, legal action, even if a victim wants to?
DANNY: It can be. Like you said, Philippa, a lot of these issues come under existing criminal law - theft, blackmail, criminal damage, aspects like that.
PHILIPPA: Yeah.
DANNY: Also under the 2021 Domestic Abuse Act, economic abuse was listed there. Also, recent legislation around coercive control.
PHILIPPA: Yes, because that’s quite recent, isn’t it?
DANNY: That’s quite recent. But yeah, a lot of the time it can be difficult to pinpoint what is going on, especially, as we said, when it’s a family member and an older person or any victim may see, “oh, it’s just a family taking what is going to be theirs anyway”.
Who is committing financial abuse?
PHILIPPA: I’m guessing it’s not always family is it? Presumably people in care roles on occasion?
DANNY: There’s a public idea that the largest perpetrator group of abuse is carers, paid carers, professional carers in nursing homes. That isn’t the case at all.
PHILIPPA: Not true?
DANNY: No. It’s intimate partners and family members, generally. We maybe see about 4-5% of our cases dealing with professional carers in economic abuse. So it’s quite low numbers. But that’s not to say that it doesn’t happen. What we see a lot of is that potentially an older person is put into a care or a nursing home, they may have a power of attorney or not, and then the attorney or the family members or intimate partners, while they’re in the nursing home and have little idea about the contents within their house, may steal from them, may take the deed and aspects like that.
PHILIPPA: OK. And presumably smaller stuff like cashing checks?
DANNY: Cashing checks, yeah.
PHILIPPA: OK.
JAYPEE: I’ve seen a few.
PHILIPPA: Have you?
JAYPEE: In pensions, yeah. In my current role, I’ll say the types that I see at the moment - family members, and I know you mentioned carers, but I find it’s usually spouses and children. So when the customer is vulnerable and they need assistance or they need help, they usually seek help from whoever’s closest to them, and they trust them with things like their passwords, like access to their emails -
PHILIPPA: Right.
JAYPEE: - bank account, letters. Sometimes it happens right there in their home. I’ve seen situations where a customer has been really ill, and so he had to rely on his neighbour to help him sort out his finances, and a lot of his funds were being moved over by the neighbour.
PHILIPPA: Out of his pension?
JAYPEE: Out of his pension. We’ve had children, like sons. This one I remember very clearly. The son was also very vulnerable, he had a gambling addiction, and so while helping his dad manage his pension, took out quite a lot of it. And it’s difficult because sometimes people have joint accounts with their loved ones. They have joint accounts with their children, their spouses.
PHILIPPA: So it’s hard to know if something bad is going on?
JAYPEE: It’s hard to know, and again, people don’t press charges. They report to the police, but they don’t take any action afterwards. The police can only help you if you allow them to do their job. But most people, they want to keep it in the family, and they say, ‘this is a family matter’.
How do financial services protect against financial abuse?
PHILIPPA: So firms that provide financial services, they put in place anti-financial abuse controls. What sort of measures can you put in place to protect customers?
JAYPEE: I mean, I think this is where I think we should shed a lot of light on the importance of ‘know your customer’ (KYC) checks.
PHILIPPA: What do they consist of?
JAYPEE: It could go from us trying to make sure that we identify that our customers are who they say they are. I find that a lot of people, consumers, they usually frown upon how stringent these checks are. Asking for your ID, asking for proof of address, doing a facial similarity check, which is where you take a selfie and we check your ID as well. People frown upon it because they’re like, well, “it’s me. Why are you checking me?”.
PHILIPPA: It takes time.
JAYPEE: Yeah, and it takes time, and they don’t really like it. When fraud happens, I’ve had experience with people saying, “well, what did you do to protect my money? Did you do your checks?”. So what I’d like people to do is to be more open and embrace these checks that we do. So although sometimes we sense it’s you, we’ll check and make sure before we hand your money over that you are who you say you are.
PHILIPPA: This is interesting because there’s a UK Finance Financial Abuse Code of Practice, isn’t there?
JAYPEE: There is.
PHILIPPA: So this is part of all that?
JAYPEE: It’s part of it. I think all firms - I mean, there’s so many regulations that we’re bound by to make sure that we can mitigate the risk of financial abuse and we’re able to protect our customers. The Consumer Duty, the recent one, is definitely a huge one that I know a firm like PensionBee conforms to by making sure that we’re protecting our customers. But also we know that there are lots of vulnerable customers, so there are regulations around how you can treat your vulnerable customers and how you’re supposed to support them and help them. And then there’s financial crime regulations as well that help us to put controls in place to avoid these things happening.
PHILIPPA: It’s interesting what you say about people pushing back on the whole proving their identity thing. I mean we’ve all been there when you’re applying for something. “How many things do you need? I’ve given you this, I’ve given you that. Really, do we need to do more?”. But as you say, it’s about framing why, because I think when you’re on the receiving end of that, you’re thinking, it’s about me, but actually, it’s kind of not about you, it’s about what else might be going on around you or other people around you. We’re keeping you safe from things you might not even be aware of.
JAYPEE: Absolutely, because we’re safeguarding your funds. We have a responsibility to make sure that your money is safe. We’ll take every step that we need to, to make sure that we’re keeping it safe because we’re accountable for anything that happens to your money. So we need to take the steps that we need to to ensure that it doesn’t get into the wrong hands.
How to keep yourself and your funds safe from financial abuse.
PHILIPPA: Shall we move on to what people can do to protect themselves? Because obviously, the ideal outcome here is that it doesn’t happen or it happens less. I’m thinking around things like financial services, that’s got to be about the basics, like keeping your login and [other] details private.
JAYPEE: Absolutely. I always say, especially with digital firms or firms that deal online. It’s important. I know some people have joint emails that they share with their spouses, their children. It’s better to have a sole account where you only have access to it, and if you do share access with somebody else, it’s important to keep an eye on what happens in your account. Have notifications set up on your phone so that something pops up when anything changes on your account. It’s keeping your login details secure. Personally speaking, I’ll say, don’t share your email with anyone and keep that sole access to yourself.
PHILIPPA: Yeah.
JAYPEE: Checking regularly on your bank accounts, checking regularly on your pension accounts, it could take about a few seconds a day, just pop in and have a look because you might catch something and be like, “wait, that doesn’t look right”. I think most people don’t know you can get support from the firm themselves because you can ring in and ask for support directly and say, “look, I don’t know too much about the internet. I don’t know too much about checking my account. Can you tell me what’s going on?”.
Thankfully, at PensionBee, there’s still that human connection. You can contact your BeeKeeper and say, “hey, I’m struggling with this thing. Can you help me or show me how to do it?”.
DANNY: Financial institutions do offer support. They should offer more support. A lot of the online banks aren’t signed up to the UK Finance Code of Practice.
PHILIPPA: They’re not?
DANNY: No.
PHILIPPA: OK. Why not? You think that would be a no-brainer, wouldn’t you?
DANNY: You’d think it would be a no-brainer. I can’t answer why they’re not signed up to it.
PHILIPPA: But they’re not. So it’s something to watch if you’re picking a bank presumably?
DANNY: Definitely. Actually, Hourglass just released a report around the most accessible banks to use for older adults.
PHILIPPA: OK, well, if you let us have a link to that, we’ll put it in the show notes.
DANNY: Will do.
What are the signs of financial abuse to look out for?
PHILIPPA: I’m interested to know how we spot this because this is a thing that can creep up on people. I think if it’s happening to you, maybe it feels normal. If it’s in a relationship, you know, our own stuff always feels normal to us, doesn’t it? Maybe we don’t feel like we’re being coercively controlled. So what should we be looking for in our own lives and maybe in the lives of people who matter to us?
JAYPEE: For me, the red flags are the consumer or the customer not knowing or having information about their finances or not knowing what’s happening or not even knowing whether they had an account in the first place -
PHILIPPA: OK.
JAYPEE: - or not. So it’s that having no knowledge or no information about their finances.
PHILIPPA: It’s about loss of agency sometimes, isn’t it as well? Having someone who’s always just taking care of the money, taking care of the finances, and somehow you don’t really know what’s going on. A lot of people in relationships, domestic relationships, there’s often one person who does that, isn’t there - it gets handed over like the washing or the cleaning, one person does it?
JAYPEE: That’s so correct because I find what I’ve noticed is one person deals with all the finances. Sometimes you’ll be on the phone to a customer and they’ll say, “speak to my partner”, and they don’t even know any of their information at all. The other person has all of the information. Perhaps this might be a reason to learn a bit more and not solely rely on the other person.
PHILIPPA: Yeah, but you don’t have to be doing it, but you need to understand what’s going on, don’t you? Just check in now and again with your own accounts, just see what’s happening.
JAYPEE: Just see what’s going on.
How are financial abuse cases recorded?
PHILIPPA: How do most cases of this come to you, Danny, at the charity?
DANNY: It’s a mixture, really. We see a lot of cases where there’s been a lasting power of attorney brought out. Obviously, for that to happen, the person taken out has to have mental capacity at the time it’s taken out. Then potentially the attorney that they’ve chosen then commits abuse, maybe takes more money than is just for the person, the victim, or treats themselves because they feel that they’ve worked hard as an attorney.
PHILIPPA: They [feel they] deserve it?
DANNY: They [feel they] deserve it. The victim may have lost mental capacity in this time as well, so that makes it even harder. So we see a lot of cases around lasting power of attorney.
PHILIPPA: Who approaches you, though? Is it the victim or is it friends the victim? Or how do you actually get to hear about it?
DANNY: We generally see about 7_personal_allowance_rate of calls are from what we deem ‘concerned others’, be they friends, strangers, other family members. Then about 3_personal_allowance_rate are the victims themselves.
What support is available for victims of financial abuse?
PHILIPPA: But if someone comes to you and says, “I’m worried about my neighbour, I think maybe a family member is draining their bank account”, what can you actually do about that?
DANNY: Well, we’d give them a number of options there. Obviously, if they feel that their neighbour is in real danger, we’d suggest they call the police. A lot of times, older victim survivors, as we said, don’t want to go down that route. Then we’d tell them about their local adult safeguarding team, which their local government runs. Other organisations, the OPG, which is the Office of the Public Guardian, which is responsible for investigating abuse around power of attorney. If they’re local or in areas where we have frontline staff, we may use an IDVA service, which is an Independent Domestic Violence Advocate, to talk to them, to work them through their abuse. And also, as Jaypee has said, suggesting they ring their bank. Banks like TSB even have ‘flee funds’ where they’ll give money to victim survivors of abuse in order for them to flee their perpetrators.
PHILIPPA: So if you literally have no access to money, they can help you?
DANNY: Exactly. We’d also recommend refuges, other organisations that may be able to assist if they’re in real danger, or other financial organisations such as Action Fraud if they’re suffering from fraud or scams.
PHILIPPA: In terms of substantiating what you think is going on, I guess gathering documents is going to be a good thing, isn’t it? So that if you leave, you’ve actually got some evidence with you. I mean, obviously, I appreciate it’s not always paper nowadays, but if you need to leave and open bank accounts or claim benefits or prove your economic status, you’re going to need some stuff, aren’t you, for the organisations you’re going to be dealing with?
DANNY: Yeah, definitely. I mean, an issue with this is obviously if you’re a victim of abuse or coercive control, then the perpetrator generally may have taken that from you already. Obviously, if you can get these documents and evidence of financial abuse or, as you said, papers detailing your financial accounts, so much the better. But a lot of the time, it’s so much better to go to an organisation that can then help you, even if you can’t get this paperwork and just escape from the perpetrator themselves. Obviously, the most important thing is keeping victim survivors safe and getting them away from that abusive situation, even if they don’t have the paperwork with them.
PHILIPPA: Yeah, putting a stop to it.
The importance of financial awareness
PHILIPPA: And as we say, awareness and prevention is the key here, isn’t it, rather than dealing with the consequences. I think if we were to just loop back to that again for people to think about, that you should just never not know what’s going on with your finances.
JAYPEE: That’s correct. I can’t stress it enough. Always keep an eye on what’s going on.
PHILIPPA: Even if it’s people you love?
JAYPEE: Even if it’s people - especially if it’s people you love.
PHILIPPA: Oh that’s very cynical.
JAYPEE: I’m not saying don’t trust a good family member or close family member or a friend.
PHILIPPA: It’s self-care, isn’t it?
JAYPEE: It’s self-care because people might be going through challenges themselves. They might be going through vulnerabilities themselves. They might not be doing it intentionally. They might not be able to help themselves. I think it’s important to always keep an eye on what’s going on. Make sure you’re not sharing your passwords.
Also, most people, and I know if it’s your home, why would you want to hide your passport, your actual identity cards away? But keep it in a safe place. Not everybody needs to have access to your passport. Not everybody needs to have access to your driver’s licence, and I’m saying this more particularly for older consumers. If somebody puts a phone to your face, they might not always be taking a selfie for fun. They might be validating a KYC procedure. Just be conscious. I’m not trying to scare anybody, but be conscious that this can happen and make sure that you’re keeping an eye on your finances, your bank account, your pension account. Set up alerts. Alerts are really good now. You can set it for as low as even a pound.
PHILIPPA: So if something moves in your account, you’ll know about it straight away?
JAYPEE: You’ll know about it straight away. Set up 2FA, so two-factor authentication, which means it’ll come to your mobile phone before anybody can log in. Obviously, I’m not saying everyone shouldn’t trust their family members or their friends, but just keep an eye on it. If you keep an eye on it, then you’ll be in the know, you’ll know what’s going on. You can spot straight away when something changes or something shifts, and then you can ask questions and be able to get to the bottom of it before it’s too late.
Understanding powers of attorney
PHILIPPA: Before we wrap this up, let’s just have a quick chat about powers of attorney, because these are important. You hand over enormous power to the people you pick and I know you’ve both got some thoughts about the shortcomings that exist with the current system, Danny?
DANNY: Yeah. Last year, an act was passed, Power of Attorney Act, digitising powers of attorney. We, at Hourglass, also have some issues with the existing lack of safeguards around powers of attorney. There’s a lot of abuse, as we see. Between 2010 and 2020, the OPG saw around 20,000 cases of abuse.
PHILIPPA: This is the regulator?
DANNY: Sorry, yes. The Office of the Public Guardian saw around 20,000 cases.
PHILIPPA: So a lot?
DANNY: Yeah. There’s a fear that the digitisation of power of attorneys - which we can understand why the Office of the Public Garden is pushing for this because of the amounts of paperwork that they had to deal with before - that this could lead to more forms of abuse, more abuse of it.
PHILIPPA: You don’t like the digitisation [of power of attorney] either?
JAYPEE: No, I found the older process a lot better at the time when I was dealing with power of attorneys because it was easier to be able to see all the signatures, and it was easier to be able to contain any changes that happen. I feel like the digital version doesn’t feel as safe to me.
PHILIPPA: There’s a useful safeguard you can put in place, though, isn’t there? You don’t just have to have one person dealing with your power of attorney. You can appoint - is there a limit to the number of people? Because they can police each other, can’t they?
JAYPEE: Yeah, you can appoint several. I think it’s probably better to have a couple of people, probably even three people, and you can make the rule where they all have to jointly agree.
PHILIPPA: On any decision?
JAYPEE: On any decision. That way, you’re not leaving your entire finances in one person’s hands.
PHILIPPA: OK. Well, that’s an interesting point to end on. Some really, really useful pointers there. Thank you both very much.
DANNY: Thank you.
JAYPEE: Thank you.
PHILIPPA: As I said at the top, if you’ve been affected by any of the issues we talked about, or you think it might be happening to you, then your first stop is to go to the show notes on this episode page. You’ll find the links we’ve talked about right there to Danny’s organisation, Hourglass, and others like Surviving Economic Abuse that can help you.
Thanks for being with us. If you found the episode helpful, please do rate and review us and just before we go, a last reminder that anything discussed on the podcast shouldn’t be regarded as financial or legal advice, and when investing, your capital is at risk.
We’ll see you next time when we will be taking the long view of the whole pensions industry with PensionBee Founder and CEO, Romi Savova. Why did she think a whole lot of things needed changing when she first started in it 10 years ago? How did she set about doing that? And where does she think there’s still work to be done? So insider insight there from a serious pensions expert, don’t miss it.
Risk warning
As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.
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