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Here's PensionBee customer, Tony, three years on
In one of our first ever customer case studies, we met 53-year-old Tony. We recently caught up with him to find out if he’s on track for a happy retirement, and learn how PensionBee is helping him achieve his goals.

In one of our first ever customer case studies three years ago, we met Tony, who was approaching retirement and living in Weston-Super-Mare with his wife. He had only recently joined PensionBee, after getting fed up with his previous ‘old-fashioned’ provider, and was starting to think more about his plans for retirement. We recently caught up with Tony to find out if he’s on track for a happy retirement, and learn how PensionBee is helping him achieve his goals. Here’s what he had to say...

PensionBee: What made PensionBee stand out when you were looking for a new provider?

Tony: What stood out for me straight away was the fact PensionBee is a digital platform. I’d had trouble trying to transfer my pensions between providers before, and when I was looking for alternatives, I saw your advert and PensionBee immediately stood out. Corporate providers and the pensions industry as a whole seems somewhat outdated now. The idea of being able to manage my pension through my phone seemed like a no-brainer and much more convenient. Just getting updates by email was a big change!

Even when you were a smaller company, the reviews and comments I’d seen showed lots of people felt the same and addressed any concerns I had.

PensionBee: You originally spoke about wanting to use your pension to buy a new home with your wife. Have you been able to do this? If so, what has your drawdown experience with PensionBee been like?

Tony: Funnily enough I have. I recently turned 55 and took my _corporation_tax tax-free lump sum, but have left the remaining 75% invested. My wife and I moved to Northern Ireland a few years ago to be closer to her daughter. We’ve been renting here up ‘til now, but we’re just about to buy a house and I’ve used some of my pension for this.

If I had to describe the PensionBee withdrawal process in one word... I’d say ‘fluid’. Everything has just been at the touch of a button and easy to do.

In the run up to this, last year there were some market fluctuations, and this worried me a little with the purchase coming up. I knew I was invested in the Tailored Plan, but you had less risky plans I could choose. So I switched my pension to the Preserve Plan, as this gave me the reassurance that my funds were fairly stable. Being able to switch plans like this meant I could plan ahead and protect my pension, ready for when I needed the money.


PensionBee: How has PensionBee helped you become pension confident?

Tony: Everything is just easier and you’re able to do it with the touch of a button in your app. It’s helped with real-time thinking and planning for my pension and retirement plans. I used to only see my pension balance once a year, which didn’t give me much idea or understanding, even though it’s my money. But it’s now just more tangible and flexible to align with me and my needs.

It’s helped with real-time thinking and planning for my pension and retirement plans.

I can’t see myself retiring anytime soon, I think I’ll be working to at least State Pension age, similar to lots of other people I think. But I know my money is in safe hands, and I can easily consider and change my investment options as I get closer to retirement. Lots of people are nervous about digital services, but it’s a no-brainer for me, especially moving forward.

PensionBee: Looking back, what advice would you give to a younger Tony?

Tony: I suppose when I was younger and started my pension, I didn’t really have any idea about it. I knew I was paying into one with my employer, but the process was a bit of a ‘sign here’ one, You accepted you were paying into it each month but I didn’t really understand where my money was going I guess, or even give it much thought. So I think I should have looked after my money better as a whole and thought about the future more to put me in the position I wanted to be in.

PensionBee: What do you enjoy most about PensionBee?

Tony: Just the overall offering. The app and newsletters are great. It’s nice to see your profiles on Twitter and Facebook, it just isn’t something I’d expect from a provider and it’s reassuring I suppose. Being kept in the loop and having these insights into the company and the brand is brilliant.

I’ve also enjoyed growing with PensionBee as a company, I joined quite early on and have seen how far you’ve come and how the services have grown too. Even though you’ve increased in size a lot, and quickly, it’s been seamless and communicated really well throughout.

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PensionBee: How do you think the pensions industry could improve to help consumers?

Tony: It needs to be more tangible and visible to customers. It’s people’s money, so they should be able to see in real-time what’s happening, not just getting an update once a year like I used to. There needs to be a better, more fluid arrangement around the whole pension system. Nothing is combined across the industry, it feels broken almost and just takes a long time for things to happen.

Where PensionBee are working with banks and other providers to bring together services and systems for its customers, others aren’t shifting. You’re setting the example for others to follow.

PensionBee: Can you describe your experience with us in 3 words?

Tony: Second to none!

As always, we’d love to hear your feedback, so leave your comments below or get in touch with the team on Twitter!

Celebrating Pride Month at PensionBee
Promoting diversity and inclusivity is a key focus at PensionBee. Find out how we’re celebrating Pride Month and the LGBTQ+ movement as a company.

Throughout June we’re proud to be celebrating LGBTQ+ Pride Month at PensionBee, and even though we can’t join our local parade this year, there are lots of fun things we’re doing internally.

LGBTQ+ Pride is about appreciating community and diversity, remembering the progress that has been made against discrimination, and celebrating love in all its forms. Pride Month takes place every year in June, and is celebrated across the world in recognition of the LGBTQ+ movement. June was selected as the month to celebrate Pride as it was the month when the Stonewall riots took place in New York in 1969.

A year after the Stonewall riots, Mark Segal, an LGBTQ+ pioneer and witness to the riots, founded the first New York City Pride march in 1970, which has been running ever since. The first Pride festival in the UK took place in 1972 in London, with around 2,000 people in attendance. Now more than a million people turn out in London to celebrate each year.

LGBTQ+ at PensionBee

Whilst Pride Month brings visibility to the LGBTQ+ community and the issues they face in society, promoting diversity and inclusion within our team culture is a key focus at PensionBee all year round. The concept of diversity and inclusivity encompasses acceptance and respect and is central to our five company values of Love, Innovation, Honesty, Simplicity and Quality.

At PensionBee we have two Diversity Champions, Rachael and James, and are planning to expand the team in the coming weeks. Our Diversity Champions are responsible for running internal events that help us to celebrate our differences, highlight our similarities and create a safe space where important discussions can take place.

This month, Pride has provided us with an opportunity to discuss love and identity as a team, sharing experiences and increasing our knowledge about the LGBTQ+ community. James, one of our Diversity Champions, says: “It’s important for us to embrace and celebrate our diversity in all it’s forms, so it’s great that myself and Rachael can bring colleagues together to celebrate Pride.

At PensionBee, we believe that having a diverse and inclusive team allows us to better understand our diverse customer base, leading to better business decisions. Our CMO, Jasper Martens, says: “We’re stewards of our customers’ hard-earned pension money and can only do our job well if we’ve built a pension product with input from a diverse, inclusive and happy team.

Our vision is to live in a world where everyone has a happy retirement, and we believe that a happy team will lead to happy customers. That’s why happiness is at the heart of our team culture and so everyone at PensionBee has a ‘Happiness!’ Manager who they meet with every 6-8 weeks. A ‘Happiness!’ meeting focuses solely on how someone’s feeling, and what the company can do to support them. During these meetings conversations cover everything from a colleague’s work and home life to their emotional wellbeing which includes encouraging them to be their full self in all aspects of their life, particularly when it comes to their identity.

Our LGBTQ+ Bar

One event that we’ve set up during Pride Month is our LGBTQ+ Bar which opens every Friday at 5pm. In our virtual bar we have themed discussions as a team, providing an opportunity for colleagues and friends to come together to share stories and learn from each other. Each week has had a different topic of conversation, ranging from gender binary and fluidity, to how people’s experiences have changed within the workplace. While we’ve only had two sessions to date, we believe it’s initiatives like this that help make PensionBee such a fun and inclusive place to work, and speaks to the culture we’ve created where everyone feels valued and supported.

Sam, one of our Nectar Collectors, who joined our first LGBTQ+ Bar said “I have become so comfortable in my identity at work that I recently hosted a Q&A session centred on gender identity and what it means to be non-binary. I never expected to succeed in the financial industry as a queer, transgender person, until I joined PensionBee.

Pride Slack channel

We have also set up a ‘PensionBee Pride’ Slack channel which allows everyone in the company to share ideas and resources and discuss the ways we can support the LGBTQ+ community. Ari, a member of our marketing teams says: “It’s been great to hear from everyone and learn about the LGBTQ+ history, get recommendations for some podcasts to listen to and just be a part of general chat around the Pride movement.

Donut catch-ups

Another initiative we have at PensionBee to promote diversity and inclusivity is our Donut program. Two members of staff get randomly paired together and go out for a donut (getting a donut isn’t compulsory though!). This is an opportunity to get to know other members of the company who you may not usually get a chance to interact with in the office. Whilst the topic of conversations vary, lots of recent Donut’s have been centred around the issues that matter most to us from Pride Month to the Black Lives Matter movement.

At PensionBee we know that everyone is unique, from our team members through to our 280,000 registered customers, and we frequently celebrate this both internally and externally. We’re passionate about challenging the outdated pensions industry, and part of that is challenging the traditional outlook of what a workplace should look like. That’s why we think it’s important to champion diversity year-round at PensionBee, not just during Pride Month.

Listen to our CEO, Romi, talking pensions with Times Money Mentor
Our CEO, Romi Savova, recently took part in a Times Money Mentor webinar discussing pensions, planning ahead and how to simplify your finances.

On Friday 5 June our CEO, Romi, was invited to join a live webinar for Times Money Mentor, a free website from The Times designed to help you make smarter financial decisions and grow your money through how-to guides, articles, Q&As, inspirational stories and videos. The event saw Romi, Gemma Godfrey, Executive Editor of Times Money Mentor and Kate Palmer, Senior Money Reporter for The Times and The Sunday Times, discuss the importance of planning ahead for a happy retirement.

Romi discussed what coronavirus means for your pensions and investments, making the most of your pension contributions and answered viewers’ questions live with Gemma and Kate. You can watch a full recording of the webinar below. If you have any questions that weren’t covered, let us know in the comments below or get in touch with us on Twitter!

Watch Money to the Masses’ live pension Q&A with our CEO
Our CEO, Romi Savova, recently took part in a live Q&A with Money to the Masses, answering your pension related questions.

On Friday 15 May our CEO, Romi, took part in a live pensions Q&A, hosted by Money to the Masses director Damien Fahy. Money to the Masses is one of the UK’s leading independent personal finance websites, empowering consumers to take control of their finances. Romi answered reader questions about consolidating your pensions, the options you have when drawing down your pension, and how to make the most of the Money Purchase Annual Allowance (MPAA).

Here are some of the key topics Romi covered:

You can watch the full replay of the Q&A below. If you have any questions that weren’t covered, let us know in the comments below or get in touch with us on Twitter!

8 questions that can speed up your pension transfer
Whilst our aim is to make pension transfers as easy as possible, some providers are still stuck in the dark ages. Find out some of the questions you can your provider to speed your transfer up.

This article was last updated on 21/05/2025

Transferring a pension should be simple, however this isn’t always the case. At PensionBee we want to make transfers as easy as possible, but unfortunately not all providers share our vision. When we looked at pension transfer times across the industry, we found that some providers take over two months to complete a transfer.

We know that slow pension transfers can make it even harder for you to stay engaged with your retirement savings. This can potentially leave you worse off in the long run. Our Cost of Disengagement Report dives into the risks of ignoring your pension and highlights why the industry urgently needs to make saving for the future easier.

As soon as we know the details of your pension, we’ll try to do all the legwork for you. But there are a few things you can do to speed up your transfer. Here are eight questions to ask both your pension provider and yourself to make your transfer quicker.

1. What type of pension do I have?

Most workplace and personal pensions are defined contribution pensions. Transferring a defined contribution pension should be fairly straightforward. Pension transfers can be more complex if you have a defined benefit pension (also known as a ‘final salary’ pension). You may have one if you’ve worked for a large company or in the public sector. With defined benefit pensions, you’ll have to seek independent financial advice if it’s worth over £30,000, which can delay the transfer.

2. Will I lose any benefits or face charges when I transfer?

Pensions can sometimes come with guarantees, known as ‘safe-guarded benefits‘, as long as you remain in the scheme. The level of reward will vary, but it’s important to understand what you’ll lose before committing to transfer your pension. If you’re not sure, you can ask your old provider for more information.

When leaving a scheme early, you may be faced with a pension transfer charge, also known as an ‘exit fee’. The amount you’re charged can vary between providers and schemes. It’s important to understand how much you’ll be charged and the impact the charges can have on your pension pot size in the short and long-term.

At PensionBee, we charge one single annual management fee, which is taken directly from your pension pot. This will be between 0.50 and 0._rate, depending on the plan you choose. There are no hidden transfer fees, or any other kind of fees.

3. Does my new provider need to send a letter of authority?

A letter of authority (LOA) shows providers that you’ve given PensionBee permission to request pension information on your behalf. Although we’re sometimes able to request the transfer straight away, if we need any information about your pension, we’ll need to send an LOA first.

Finding out if we’ll need an LOA, and where to send it, can help to fast track your transfer. Some providers have multiple departments. So knowing the best postal or email address to use cuts out a lot of the back and forth between us and your provider.

4. Is my personal information up to date?

The personal details you’ve given PensionBee will need to match the information held by your current provider when requesting a transfer. So if you’ve moved house or got married since opening the pension, you’ll need to update this information with your old provider first.

If any details don’t match up, your provider won’t release any information about your pension. You might then need to send further paperwork and proof of identification to your provider so they can verify your identity.

5. Is my pension active?

Before transferring a pension, all personal and employer contributions will need to have finished. If the pension is still receiving contributions, these could be lost or delay the transfer. Most providers will insist on three months of no contributions before accepting a transfer request, so it’s worth checking sooner rather than later. With PensionBee you can add an active pension to your account, and as soon as you stop receiving contributions we can initiate the transfer.

6. Do I have all of my policy information?

When tracing a pension, any information you’re able to provide us at the moment of sign up is a massive help. This could be your provider’s name or a policy number. Any information you can dig out will go a long way to finding your pension and helping us complete the transfer faster.

If you need support with this, you can use the government’s Pension Tracing Service. It’s a database of pension plans that allows you to search for your employer’s name, to see if there’s a record of their pension provider.

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7. Do you accept electronic transfers?

Although paper transfer forms are less common now, some providers still use them. In fact, around 8% of the transfers we process require us to use paper forms. Not only is this bad for the environment, it slows down your transfer and carries the risk of valuable information being lost in the post too.

At PensionBee we do our part by using the electronic transfer platform Origo Options. This allows for a safer, more efficient and environmentally-friendly transfer of your pension. If your provider accepts electronic transfers, your money should be moved in no more than two weeks. However, if your old provider insists on paper transfer forms, the transfer can take up to twice as long. These delays allow your provider to earn more in fees and may even put you off transferring altogether.

8. Is there anything else I can do?

With most transfers, having your policy information and authority to act on your behalf is enough. However, some providers will have additional requirements. This is particularly common among providers who still use paper transfer forms. Finding out if you’ll need to send proof of identification or further paperwork, can ensure a smoother transfer.

Speaking to your provider both before and during the transfer means you can avoid any blockers, and ensure there aren’t any hiccups along the way.

How does consolidation work with PensionBee?

At PensionBee we’ll always keep you in the loop about your transfer and aim to make the process as simple as possible. You can sign up in just a few minutes and you’ll be assigned your very own UK-based BeeKeeper should you have any questions throughout your pension journey with us.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

The PensionBee value of honesty
At PensionBee we have five company values, and the value of ‘honesty’ is at the centre of everything we do. Here’s why...

At PensionBee we have five company values: innovation, love, simplicity, quality and honesty. Earlier in the year, I wrote about innovation and love. Now I’d like to tell you about our value of honesty. ‘Honesty’ might not be a word that is generally associated with financial services. It’s an industry for which there’s a lot of mistrust, and you could say understandably so. It was really important to us, therefore, that PensionBee put the value of honesty at the centre of everything we do. We’re asking people to trust their hard-earned money with us. The money that will help them enjoy the last chapter of their life. How are we to expect our customers to trust us if we aren’t honest with them?

Being honest with each other

We’ve worked hard to build an environment in the office that encourages honesty. Our CTO, Jonathan, recently wrote a piece on our blog all about our amazing ‘Happiness!’ program (it’s one of the reasons we won a Diversity & Inclusion Champion award at the Computing Tech Marketing & Innovation Awards last month) but in a nutshell, the program consists of all employees, right up to the founders, having regular meetings with their ‘Happiness!’ manager. We’re encouraged to answer the question of whether we’re happy honestly, and it makes a lot of sense, because if things aren’t right, we want to know, so that we can make them right. Of course, we also hear the reasons that people are happy, and that can be just as helpful in showing us when we’re on the right path.

In the spirit of transparency, our CEO, Romi, holds monthly ‘CEO Sessions’ where she talks to us about aspects of the business that we might not see in our day-to-day work lives. As an employee, being kept in touch with all the important information and big decisions being made, makes a real difference to how connected to and how involved with the company you feel. We’ve recently also started a new series called ‘Ask Me Anything’, where a member of the team will host an open lunch where anyone from the company can join and ask them questions about their job or department or a specific topic.

Another regular session we run is the ‘BeeStorm’, which I talked about in my piece on our value of innovation. The ‘BeeStorm’ is intended to give the Customer Success Team a platform to tell us where improvements can be made to the processes they’re following. Encouraging this kind of feedback not only helps us to make sure we’re always improving our systems, but it also gives that team a stronger sense of ownership over the tools they’re using. And happy employees tend to make happy customers!

Being honest with our customers

Being honest with our customers is something that we care deeply about at PensionBee, and something that we encourage from others in our industry as well. For a lot of people, pensions are a product that is shrouded in mystery, and lifting the cloak on that is central to our company mission. This mission manifests itself in several ways from being transparent about the fees we charge our customers, to publishing data about how we, and others in the industry, perform when it comes to transferring pensions.

In fact, our whole service is based on the belief that transparency in pensions is what customers need and deserve. We believe that customers should always know what’s happening with their money, which is why our customers get to see how their pension’s performing, not just once a year, but every time they log into their account. We recently became the first pension provider to adopt the Simpler Annual Statement, a two-page document that gives customers the information they really need in an easy-to-digest format. For too long, pension statements (often the only insight a customer gets into their pension) have been thick wads of paper, with so much information on them, that it’s been hard for savers to find the information that matters to them.

Honesty with our customers isn’t just a one-way street though. We want our customers to be honest with us too! We actively seek feedback from our customers all the time and the responses we get are shared with the entire team in weekly updates and in our weekly ‘Show’n’Tell’ sessions, where a portion of time is assigned to hearing some of the feedback we’ve had in the previous week. We also live-feed our Trustpilot reviews into a Slack channel that the whole company has access to, so whether the feedback is good or bad, we all get to see, in real-time, what our customers are saying about us. We have an unofficial company policy to say thank you for all feedback. Often it’s nice to hear, sometimes it isn’t, but it’s always helpful, because even if we disagree with the feedback (we rarely do!), it still tells us something about how our customers feel about our service, and that is an invaluable learning.

It’s almost impossible to build a high-quality product or to offer high-quality service, without feedback, which is especially important to us, since another of our company values is quality. I’ll tell you more about that next time.

How PensionBee’s supporting vulnerable customers
Here’s how we’re supporting vulnerable customers at PensionBee...

Money has evolved dramatically in recent years. In 2019, credit card spending overtook cash payments for the first time, and during the pandemic we saw a massive shift to digital payments as many vendors refused to accept cash altogether, favouring contactless payment methods instead. As our money and financial services industry has become increasingly digitised, scammers have become highly sophisticated, often targeting our personal details over our wallets.

Research conducted by consumer champion, Boring Money, found that a third of all investors self-identified as vulnerable to financial harm. With the cost-of-living crisis continuing into 2023, more people run the risk of falling between the cracks. Our company vision’s for everyone to feel in control of their finances so they can look forward to a happy retirement. Here’s how we’re supporting vulnerable customers at PensionBee...

Identifying vulnerability in customers

As the regulator of the UK financial services industry, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) coaches financial companies on how to deliver good practices in business and the fair treatment of consumers. According to the FCA, it’s the duty of financial institutions to protect customers from this harm: like falling for a scam, or sliding into unaffordable debt.

In the FCA’s own words: “A vulnerable customer is someone who, due to their personal circumstances, is especially susceptible to harm, particularly when a firm is not acting with appropriate levels of care.” The responsibility isn’t for vulnerable customers to advocate for themselves. Companies must work towards spotting and supporting vulnerable customers.

There are the four categories of vulnerability the FCA advises firms to watch out for:

1. Capability

Making informed decisions about your money requires you to hold the right information.


Capability characteristics that increase financial vulnerability


Insufficient knowledge or confidence in managing finances

Limited, or non-existent, digital abilities

Poor literacy and numeracy skills

Restricted access to help and support

2. Health

Making informed decisions about your money requires you to hold the right information.

Health characteristics that increase financial vulnerability


Addiction, or compulsive behaviour

Hearing or visual impairment

Mental health, or physical disability

Severe or long-term illness

3. Life events

Making informed decisions about your money requires you to hold the right information.

Life events that increase financial vulnerability


Change in finances, like redundancy

Domestic abuse or traumatic experiences

Giving or receiving caring responsibilities

Loss through bereavement or relationship breakdown

4. Resilience

Making informed decisions about your money requires you to hold the right information.

Resilience characteristics that increase financial vulnerability


Inadequate or erratic income

Limited emotional resilience

Over-indebtedness

Restricted or lack of savings

What does being a vulnerable customer mean?

As you can see, the list of characteristics that increase your vulnerability to financial harm are extensive. In all likelihood, you may have been identified by your bank or another financial services provider as a vulnerable customer at one point in your life.

This is where the FCA’s ‘Consumer Duty‘ principles come in. The Consumer Duty advises financial firms that “consumers should receive communications they can understand, products and services that meet their needs and offer fair value, and they get the customer support they need, when they need it”. Whether you realise that you’re vulnerable or not, when you communicate with your financial provider they’ll be trained to spot these characteristics and support you to the best of their ability.

How we support our vulnerable customers at PensionBee

An empathetic customer experience

As PensionBee’s COO, I’m responsible for a range of operational activities across the business, including our Customer Success and Compliance teams. To give the best customer experience, we need an empathetic and knowledgeable in-house team. Our guiding light in all communications is our company value of love. All our customers are assigned a personal BeeKeeper to give them a friendly, human experience.

Our BeeKeepers go through in-depth training on identifying vulnerability characteristics and acting with care, as part of their onboarding training program. Our Team Leaders conduct spot checks and provide regular training to ensure our customers receive the highest level of service. If a customer’s unhappy with our service, our Compliance team investigates and aims to respond within three working days after receiving the complaint.

An inclusive product design

Our CDO, Matt Loft, oversees the development of new and existing features for our entire customer journey. He’s made it his mission to embed clear accessibility and consider vulnerability across the PensionBee mobile app and website. Every interface is carefully reviewed to ensure our product design supports all of our customers.

From workshops with screen readers to understand how visually impaired customers may receive information, to focus groups and questionnaires monitoring customer interests. Using these feedback loops and tracking customer insights, our product continually adapts to better suit the evolving needs of our growing customer base.

What if I’m a vulnerable customer?

PensionBee takes your vulnerability seriously. If you’re comfortable sharing your vulnerability characteristics with your BeeKeeper, we’ll try our best to make any reasonable adjustments for you whilst maintaining strict confidentiality. We’re committed to creating a customer-centric culture that permeates all teams: from our Software Engineers improving your app interface, to your BeeKeeper keeping you in the loop on your pension transfers.

If you’re struggling right now, and you need to talk to someone, call Samaritans on 116 123. You can speak to a volunteer from Mental Health Innovations there. They’re open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. You can also text the word ‘SHOUT’ to 85258. You can do it entirely anonymously if that’s what you’d prefer. The first port of call for any mental health issues, big or small, should be your GP. They can connect you with your local NHS Mental Health Trust to support you with any sort of treatment you might need.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

4 pension innovations that could make the dashboard obsolete before it’s even here
Is the pensions dashboard becoming less and less necessary?

I’m a huge proponent of the Pensions Dashboards, however, like most in the industry, I’m getting a bit tired of waiting for the DWP to issue something of substance.

Knowing exactly the type of gremlins that lie in providers’ pension data, I don’t think the 2019 deadline is achievable and at best we are looking at 2021 for even the best-in class providers to submit their data.

Three years is a long time and rather than go on about why the dashboard should in fact be multiple dashboards and that we don’t need full coverage on day 1 - debates which have been had ad nauseum in the industry already - I thought it may be helpful to point out a couple of developments that may make the dashboard obsolete by the time it comes into production.

Bank marketplaces

Banks and data aggregators are already offering dashboard-like functionality to consumers and the ability to see one’s pension balance next to one’s current account is hugely appealing. PensionBee’s recent integration with Starling Bank, the coolest new bank on the block, shows the power of aggregated data for consumers.

Both PensionBee and Nutmeg are also available on Bud - a provider of dashboards to banks - and we have heard more pension providers are expressing interest in joining the party.

Now of course this is slightly less appealing if you have 11 or so different pensions, but there are already initiatives underway to reduce the number of pots people accumulate in the first place...

Pension follows member

A proposal to allow consumers to choose their auto-enrolment pension is gaining momentum in the industry. Indeed, pension follows member will dramatically reduce pension pot proliferation, particularly in industries where job-hopping is fairly prominent.

We at PensionBee support pension follows member because it will encourage consumer ownership of pensions and pension outcomes. But let’s be honest - not everyone will take it up because the employer’s default would still be available, well, by default.

But fortunately, consolidation at various points in time is also becoming easier...

Transfer standards

The newly issued guidance by the Transfers and Re-registration Industry Group clearly calls for a 14-day end-to-end switching guideline and while the standard is voluntary, it does sound like a register of who is and isn’t complying will be forthcoming.

PensionBee exists to make pensions simple and as the only U.K. pension company exclusively focused on consolidation, we have been very vocal in calling for an end-to-end pension switch guarantee, so we’re delighted to have played our part in getting consumer voices heard at the table.

And switching will become much more likely once we can compare our pensions...

Value for money analysis

Data suggests that over a third of consumers switch car insurance annually. Why? Because it’s easy to compare different quotes and switching is easy. Well if transfers can be completed in 2 weeks, then what we are really missing is some value for money analysis that can help a consumer determine whether they are in the right product or not.

Propelled by the work of Chris Sier to standardise cost disclosures through the Financial Conduct Authority’s Institutional Disclosure Working Group, Henry Tapper is due to launch a pension comparison tool that I ultimately expect will be adopted by the likes of MoneySuperMarket and the other aggregators - where some 13 million consumers shop for financial products annually.

So if we can already see our pensions data online and we are less and less likely to accumulate pensions as time progresses, what will be the point of the Pensions Dashboards?

As the private sector steps up, the Pensions Dashboards is becoming less and less necessary

I suspect the Pensions Dashboards will ultimately propel all of the movements and technologies described above but let’s be clear: as the private sector steps up, the pensions dashboard is becoming less and less necessary to solve the pensions mess in the country. So hurry up, Mr. Opperman, before we all beat you to it.

What should the government do about the Pensions Dashboards?
Our CEO tells us what she we would do if she were in the DWP's shoes...

I recently had the pleasure of presenting at the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) annual “Summer School”. Beyond talking about social media and pension engagement, it seems my blog on pension innovations that could make the dashboard irrelevant was quite popular. Of course we got onto talking about options for the dashboard and what would I do if I were in the DWP’s shoes. So I thought I would spell these views out publicly so that others can accept or quibble!

Please don’t build a dashboard

Just because not everyone can supply data on Day 1, does not mean that we should delay or abandon the project

There have been some desperate cries from various media outlets for the government not to “abandon” building a dashboard. Just to be clear: as far as I am aware, nobody has ever asked the government to build any sort of dashboard. The private sector is fully capable of building the technology to support people to see their pensions in one place. PensionBee is already facilitating live pension balances to our mutual Starling Bank customers and various other aggregators are rapidly following suit.

The government is poorly equipped and incentivised to maintain dashboard technology that the private sector is desperate to support. So what should the government help with?

Decide on the priorities

The objectives for the Pensions Dashboards are lofty and they include the following:

  • Reconcile people with lost pensions as much as possible (especially those who switch jobs frequently and have been auto-enrolled)
  • Help people see all their pensions in one place so they can plan for retirement
  • Create engagement around pension savings

Achieving all of the objectives is not possible because not all providers will be able to supply clean data on Day 1. But just because not everyone can supply data on Day 1, does not mean that we should delay or abandon the project. Rather, we need to achieve our priorities in order.

The obvious solution is to start with the first objective to reconcile people with “lost” pensions. These people will happily log in periodically to “find” their “lost” pensions as more providers join because it is a bit like finding free money. They do not need to see everything at once.

Decide who needs to supply data and when based on the priorities

To start with the first objective, the government should compel those who can give data to do so. These will typically be the newer auto-enrolment providers and their data will help reconcile job-switchers with their “lost” pensions. I don’t believe that DB pensions or the state pension need to be part of the launch phase – DB pensions and the State Pension are rarely if ever “lost”. In order to achieve the second objective, to help people see all their pensions in one place, the DWP should then give deadlines to those who must clean. Cleaning should not really be negotiable. Under GDPR requirements, all providers have an obligation to maintain clean customer data. It is not the customer’s problem if pension provider data is (horrifyingly) written down in excel spreadsheets. And finally, once the data is there, we can talk about ways to create engagement and set some parameters for the private sector.

In sum, I would be in favour of splitting providers into “groups”, starting with those who can supply data doing so in 2020 (let’s be ambitious, but also realistic) and staging the rest of the providers over 3 years. Providers can voluntarily choose which group they belong to, bearing in mind their choice reflects their priority to maintaining clean customer data.

Set the groundwork for the data standards, but don’t go reinventing (or in fact building) the wheel

At the end of the day pension data belongs to the consumer and the consumer should have the right to share their pension data with whomever they wish, subject to that person being responsible. This is the principle behind open banking that has required the UK’s major banks to make our data freely available to companies that hold the right permissions with the Financial Conduct Authority. To progress the technical standards behind open banking, the regulators created the Open Banking Implementation Entity (funded by the UK’s nine largest banks) to design the API specifications, security and messaging standards and guidelines for the participants. There is no reason that a similar body cannot exist for pensions.

So that’s it in my opinion. I don’t mean to trivialise what is clearly an important matter for consumers, but I do think it’s important to see the forest through the trees. So here’s to the DWP’s Feasibility Study – let’s hope it’s worth the wait.

We're celebrating 1,000 Trustpilot reviews!
Our CEO, Romi, discusses PensionBee achieving 1,000 Trustpilot reviews, and why this is an important milestone well worth celebrating.

Today I am honoured to let you know that we have achieved 1,000 Trustpilot reviews, cementing our 5-star average. Of all the milestones to celebrate, I want you to know why this one is so important to us here at PensionBee.

The fundamental thing that makes PensionBee different from all other pension providers is how much we care about our customers and giving you a fantastic experience. In 2014 we set out on a journey to help the U.K. look forward to a happy retirement by making pensions simple. To achieve this goal, we have enshrined the value of customer love in everything we do.

We don’t believe in taking shortcuts when it comes to customer service and that is why every single customer receives a personal BeeKeeper to guide them on their pension journey. However, you should know that every employee at PensionBee serves our customers in some way, and I have greatly enjoyed speaking to many of you on the phone and on livechat.

I would like to share what happens when we receive a review from you. Our entire company is immediately notified and your BeeKeeper is acknowledged. If the review is positive, great. However, if the review is negative or includes areas for improvement, our top priority is to respond, assess what went wrong and fix it. While there is little we can do about market fluctuations, rest assured that everything within our control is examined and addressed with immediate urgency.

We manage about half a billion pounds in pensions on your behalf and no doubt our biggest challenge will be to continue growing PensionBee while maintaining your satisfaction. We know there is a long way to go and lots more we can do to keep you happy. In addition to Trustpilot, we proactively seek your feedback on a weekly basis and we use your insights to inform everything from our internal processes to our future product releases.

Thank you for taking the time to tell us what you think. We are delighted to serve you!

Our current view on Pensions Dashboards
Our CEO, Romi, outlines the PensionBee position on Pensions Dashboards, ahead of joining The Pensions Dashboard Industry Delivery Group.

I’m happy to announce that today I will be joining The Pensions Dashboard Industry Delivery Group, giving consumers a louder voice in the creation of Pensions Dashboards. We’re looking forward to bringing our years of experience to the table, and we’ll be doing all we can to ensure the project is delivered successfully for the benefit of consumers.

At their foundation, our view is that the full vision of Pensions Dashboards must be delivered by two concurrent movements:

  • The creation of the Money and Pension Service’s “pension finder service”, which will effectively replace the government’s current pension finder service by providing more accurate and timely information to consumers
  • The furthering of the UK’s world-leading Open Finance system, which will extend Open Banking-like protocols to pensions, enabling consumers to share their data with trusted third-parties

Let’s start by running through some of our thoughts on the “pension finder service”.

We must deliver a pension finder service that’s fit for purpose

Above all else we believe that the pension finder service must be delivered swiftly and incrementally. Consumers cannot be kept waiting for decades for a “big bang” approach.

Sensible increments would include “year from” staging; for example all pensions established on or after 1 January, 2012 should be part of the first wave of compulsion. This rule achieves the benefit of incorporating the largest master trusts and other new providers who are most technologically prepared.

The State Pension should be included in the first wave

In addition, this approach also has the benefit of consumer familiarity, as consumers will be most able to recognise potential data gaps (rather than staging by pension scheme size, which would require consumers to be familiar with pension provider market shares).

As a result of staged compulsion, the State Pension should be included in the first wave. This should ensure that the majority of consumers have something positive to see on their first visit, and are encouraged to return. We also believe there should be no exemptions from compulsion, as the rules of exemption will be difficult for consumers to understand.

On a more technical level, the pension finder service should collect email addresses. Emails could then notify customers who opt-in to periodically check new data additions, so that they stay engaged.

Pensions Dashboards logins must use a digital ID standard

Elsewhere, Pensions Dashboards logins must use a digital ID standard that enables more than 8_personal_allowance_rate of the eligible population to log in on a first attempt. The government is currently consulting on a digital ID framework which must be adopted for the pension finder service. It would be wise for the Steering Group to develop a “Plan B” consisting of key authentication factors - name, address, national insurance number, date of birth - should the Digital ID not be available in time for a public launch.

Finally, the pension finder service should give the minimum useful information, so as not to delay the launch. This must include:

  • A policy number
  • Year-end balances
  • Charges in %
  • Charges in £ for the last 12 months
  • A link to the provider’s website where the consumer can obtain more information

This information, and in particular charges, are already consistent with the information pension providers are required to provide under current regulations.

Ultimately, the successful implementation of the pension finder is crucial to the success of any dashboard. However, it’s essential not to neglect the importance of Open Finance and data sharing.

Why Open Finance and data sharing have a big role to play

While the Pensions Dashboards will help consumers find their lost pensions, the vast majority of pensions are not lost and consumers need to be able to share their pension data safely and effectively, in predictable ways.

Many consumers are required to post their valuable financial information

As things stand, many consumers are required to post their valuable financial information around the country using “letters of authority” and “wet signatures”. These practices are inconsistent with modern behaviour and also potentially with the law. While the Money and Pension Service’s pension finder service is being enabled, so too will protocols for safe and efficient pension data sharing.

Thankfully, it is expected that Open Pensions (led by the Financial Conduct Authority’s work on Open Finance), and the pension finder service will converge over the next few years. We will support all efforts to align Open Pensions as closely as possible to Open Banking, so as to give consumers a consistent experience across financial products.

We will support all efforts to align Open Pensions as closely as possible to Open Banking

Consumers will wish to share data from the pension finder service directly from the major providers, and they should be allowed to share this data with trusted third-parties. From this lens, it is appropriate not to think of pension dashboards per se, but to think of pension dashboard services that are facilitated through data sharing.

Indeed, one does not necessarily need to display all of the data from the pension finder service in order to help a consumer and it is quite possible that data from the pension finder service will be used selectively.

For instance, if a comparison service for defined contribution pensions exists, it will not necessarily need to show all of the available information on a consumer’s public sector pensions. It is therefore important that the appropriate principles-based regulation exists, to ensure pension dashboard services are mitigating potential consumer detriment - without stifling the innovation consumers need to plan for retirement.

In our opinion, it is crucial that the major pension providers are required to electronically provide detailed pension information about their customers to trusted third-parties (as the pension finder service will only provide a minimal amount of information).

This information should include:

  • Balances
  • Charges in £ and %
  • Net contribution histories
  • Tax top up histories
  • Exit fees
  • Current Sedol / ISIN / Other investment codes
  • 5 year past performance of the relevant investment

While the ICO guidance and GDPR laws must be adhered to at all times, trusted third-parties must also be authorised and regulated to access this information by the Financial Conduct Authority, using existing permissions that enable access to banking data but delineating pensions as a separate product. It would be inconsistent with the current regulatory framework to require authorisation of banking information providers, but not of pension information providers. Stronger permissioning will also facilitate data storage, a requirement for the development of consumer-oriented services and indeed a requirement for many regulated activities.

Stronger permissioning will also facilitate data storage

Controlled testing of commercial dashboards will be essential, but it is equally important that dashboards and dashboard-associated services are allowed to evolve with consumer demand for assistance. Ultimately, if the pension industry can modernise our data sharing practices and the government can provide a pension finder that’s fit for purpose, we will have the foundations in place to deliver the full vision of the Pensions Dashboard.

The Pensions Dashboards ecosystem: protecting consumers and enabling innovation
Our CEO, Romi, outlines her thoughts on The Pensions Dashboards, and how it can deliver the safe and innovative ecosystem consumers deserve.

Pensions Dashboards have the potential to revolutionise consumers’ engagement with their pensions. By making clear where the £20 billion of lost pensions are, consumers will be empowered to take control of their money and better prepared to plan for retirement using convenient forecasting tools. Through open data, consumers will be able to integrate today’s money with tomorrow’s money, resulting in higher contributions and better retirement outcomes.

However, consumer innovation must be delivered responsibly and Pensions Dashboards will only thrive in an environment that provides the appropriate protection for consumers.

Following today’s publication of the Pension Schemes Bill, below are my thoughts on how to deliver the safe and innovative ecosystem consumers deserve.

Enable safe data sharing

The government has been clear that multiple Pensions Dashboards services will exist from the outset and therefore safe data sharing must be enabled from day one. The consumer owns their data and they will wish to share it. It is important that sharing is only permissible with trusted, authorised and regulated third parties. It is a myth that delaying so-called “commercial dashboards” will prevent the free flow of data. On the contrary, if we fail to consider, define and communicate data sharing protocols and expectations with consumers, any scammer will be legally allowed to scrape the data. Scammers thrive in the grey zone.

Appropriate authorisation

The Financial Conduct Authority has been tasked with defining the appropriate authorisation mechanisms. It would be a stark anomaly and an unprecedented regulatory arbitrage to require specific regulations to access banking data through Open Banking while allowing any form of regulated entity to access pension data. This loophole should not be allowed to exist and the Financial Conduct Authority should begin to engage on the matter with immediate urgency so as not to delay the launch of public dashboards.

Sufficient information

Appropriate information must be displayed on the dashboards to allow consumers to begin the process of pension planning. Our view is that the same information available on Simpler Annual Statements, with the addition of charges displayed in £ and %, will help consumers make the right decisions. Transparency is key and there should be no quibbles from the incumbents, as there are already regulations requiring them to make this information available.

Stronger reforms of non-workplace pensions

After seeing their pension information, consumers will wish to take control of their money and consolidation may well be an appropriate choice. Pensions Dashboards can and should exist in a world of well-governed defaults. The Financial Conduct Authority is currently consulting on defaults in non-workplace pensions. Mandating a single, well-governed, charge-capped default for each and every pension provider will help prevent and mitigate the very reasonable concern that consumers will exchange good workplace pensions for inferior and expensive products.

PensionBee writes to the Director of Corporate Governance at Legal & General
Our CEO, Romi Savova, writes an open letter to Sacha Sadan, Director of Corporate Governance at Legal & General.

Dear Sacha,

Thank you for taking the time to meet regarding Shell, a key holding in the Future World Plan, of which PensionBee, through its customers, represents one of the largest holdings.

We were delighted to onboard the Future World Plan in 2017, because as a company, we believe it is important to change the world by making your voice heard. I believe we can achieve so much more through activism than through pure divestment. I know that Legal & General also believes in the purpose of the plan to build a better future world.

The strength of the Future World Plan is through its engagement and through pressure to change the behaviour of major global companies, including the world’s biggest polluters. Consequently, we have celebrated in the successes of the plan, including Shell’s commitment to link carbon emissions to executive pay in 2018 and the divestment of ExxonMobil when it failed to engage with investors in June 2019.

However, I have recently become concerned about the ongoing inclusion of Shell in the top 10 holdings of the Future World Plan. If there is one thing I have learned over the last five years, it is to always listen to our customers and their concerns. While Shell has made some progress in the right direction, our customers are asking us on a daily basis whether Shell’s business model is sufficiently transitioning to a low carbon economy to warrant continued inclusion in this responsible investment plan.

The Guardian has recently reported that Shell is independently forecast to increase its carbon emissions by 38% by 2030, by increasing its crude oil production by more than half and its gas production by over a quarter. At the same time, it is widely understood that major oil companies must cut their carbon emissions by 35% in order to achieve the goals of the Paris Agreement. This is a puzzling situation and one that is compounded by Shell’s refusal to disclose its future production schedule and whether it is indeed on track to meet its global obligations.

I would be grateful if you could share your insights on this matter and whether you continue to believe that Shell will do the right thing by our planet. I would also be grateful if you could outline the tangible next steps we and our customers should expect from Shell that will demonstrate its commitment to the Paris Agreement and specifically to reducing carbon emissions as required.

In the interest of making sure our customers know their voice is being heard, I will publish this letter on Friday.

Kind regards,

Romi Savova

Chief Executive Officer of PensionBee

Celebrating 5 years of PensionBee
Our CEO, Romi, and our CTO, Jonathan, look back over everything that's happened at PensionBee over the past five years.

What a whirlwind! It’s been five years this week since PensionBee was born. It’s fair to say that this milestone has crept up on us rather quickly. We’ve enjoyed taking a look back through the PensionBee archives to see what’s been going on.

First and foremost, we have to thank our fabulous customers - who’ve been signing up in their thousands - and who trust us to make pensions simple and engaging. We’ve frequently chosen to feature our customers in our adverts, and it’s been great to bring their stories to a wider audience in the TV ads we launched this year. For those of you who haven’t seen our TV ads yet, you can hear from Tony and Lucille in these YouTube videos.

First and foremost, we have to thank our fabulous customers

Another huge thank you has to go to the equally wonderful PensionBee team. Helping our customers look forward to a happy retirement is the motivation to get up every day and do what they do, and we think they’ve been doing a damn fine job of it. We’re so proud of the team (there’s over 100 of us now!), and the incredible diversity they bring to PensionBee. Our team have a raft of secret lives, from Glastonbury rockstar (Matt, our Head of Design), to seafood entrepreneur (Nasrin, from our A-team), to political activist (Bat, in our tech team) and many more. We’ve built a lovely supportive culture based around our values that binds us together. Our Head of Operations, Tess, has been writing a blog series this year diving into each of the values and what it means to us.

2019 has been a big year in itself - we’ve launched three new pension plans, broke through _higher_rate_personal_savings_allowance million of assets under administration, and earned our 1,000th Trustpilot review, not to mention picking up a bevvy of awards. We’ve also made a whole raft of product improvements, including a new retirement planner, speeding up your tax top ups and withdrawals, and we became the first pension provider to adopt the new Simpler Annual Statement.

A great moment was when Romi put her headset on and became a BeeKeeper for a week in January.

Our CEO Romi answering a phone

This not only helped out the team during a busy time, but was a great experience talking to customers about their issues and learning how the PensionBee front line has changed.

We’ve also been absolutely delighted to welcome Michelle Cracknell onto our board of directors. Michelle joins us from The Pensions Advisory Service, and brings a wealth of experience understanding the problems savers face when it comes to their pensions.

An industry in transition

Looking back to when we started in 2014, it feels almost like a different time in the pensions industry. For one thing, the Pension Freedoms that allowed you to take money out of a pension from the age of 55 were not due to become active until the following April. Auto-Enrolment into workplace pensions had started, but had not reached past the larger employers. 2015 was arguably when UK savers had several reasons for taking an interest in their pensions for the first time in a long time.

The transfer process was often long, arduous and paper-based

This is when the problems in exerting consumer choice in pensions came to the fore: complex, expensive products, with high (and often hidden) management fees; and when you did find a product you liked, the transfer process was often long, arduous and paper-based. It’s no surprise that PensionBee’s first service - finding and combining your old pensions into a new, online plan - remains our most popular.

So what’s changed in that picture in five years? The pensions industry is changing, partly driven by the regulators mandating changes that help consumers, and partly by consumers moving to better products. The Pensions Dashboard is one of the major headlines, promising to centralise information about all your pension savings. We think that will make a huge difference, but it’s still a few years away (Romi’s recent appointment to the Steering Group will surely help…).

In the meantime, 2018’s Open Banking has welcomed pensions under its wider Open Finance umbrella, and the introduction of GDPR in the same year is a further push towards digitisation and a consumer-centred business. Fees have come down a lot - the regulator introducing a 0.75% fee cap on the default funds of Auto-Enrolment pensions in 2015 has had a big impact on people’s expectations, and many other schemes have brought costs down in an effort to win over newly engaged savers.

There’s still a long way to go to make the industry digital by default

We’ve seen increased adoption of digital pension transfers, and an improvement in the average transfer time (remember it used to take longer to transfer a pension than to travel to Mars?). But in a world where PensionBee needs four robots to sign letters with a fountain pen in order to save our customers the hassle, there’s still a long way to go to make the industry digital by default.

Any story of the last five years in the pension industry would not be complete without mentioning the rise in interest in the Environmental, Social and Governance (ESG) sector of investment. ESG has grown from nowhere in the mid 2000s to be a major investment category, and the increasing global awareness of climate change is fueling further growth. PensionBee introduced the Future World Plan in 2017 in response to rising demand for a greener pension. We continue to hear demands for greater transparency and social impact, and we’re excited about the direction this is going and how we can help our customers use their savings to make an impact.

So, what’s next?

It seems appropriate to close by thinking about the next five years - what will pensions feel like by 2024? We know there are some significant challenges here - the average pension is still a world away from the slick, modern financial services we’ve all become accustomed to on our phone apps and online. There is a long way to go to deliver real transparency in fees and investments. But we’re really excited by the prospect of being able to lead the charge here, and we’re grateful to all our customers for giving us the honest feedback we need to understand what you need.

On that note, we’ve had a lot of those customers tell us that when it comes to taking money out of a pension, it still feels clunky and old-fashioned. So we asked them to tell us what a pension would be like if it were as easy to use as a bank account, we listened, and then we got building. Stay tuned in 2020…

To all our customers, the wonderful PensionBee team and the investors and supporters who have got us through the ups and downs of the last five years - a huge thank you and here’s to the next!

Thank you, from Jonathan and Romi.

Jonathan and Romi sat in front of the PensionBee logo

The next step in our journey
This Saturday, 14 November, we were delighted to share our exciting news that PensionBee is seeking a listing on the London Stock Exchange.

This Saturday, 14 November, we were delighted to share our exciting news that PensionBee is seeking a listing on the London Stock Exchange.

A listing is the natural next step in our development, and we are very excited by the potential that comes with being a public company. It will allow us to vigorously keep pursuing our vision: to live in a world where everyone can look forward to a happy retirement.

As with any significant event in the company’s development, we aim to keep our customers close on the journey.

Why are we exploring a listing of PensionBee?

PensionBee has always envisaged making the transition from being a private company to a public one. A listing on the London Stock Exchange will increase the profile of PensionBee and enable us to access capital, which we will invest in continuing to grow the business. Through the public listing process itself, we will reach even more people with our transformative personal pension.

As a company that maintains the highest standards of governance, including a Board that consists of predominantly independent directors, we already meet many of the stringent requirements placed on public companies. PensionBee recently announced the appointment of Mary Francis CBE as our Senior Independent Director. Mary’s impressive background includes non-executive roles at the Bank of England and Barclays among many other publicly listed companies. Our Chairman, Mark Wood CBE, has been with the business for many years.

PensionBee’s growth to date has been stellar. With over £1.2 billion in assets under administration on behalf of over 65,000 invested customers as well as the pipeline of new pension assets we expect from our 115,000 active customers, we know we are on track to helping millions of people achieve the retirement they want.

How and when will PensionBee list?

PensionBee is exploring a listing on the High Growth Segment of the London Stock Exchange’s Main Market. The High Growth Segment is exclusively designed for rapidly growing companies. The only British company to have listed there is Just Eat, and we hope that we spark a strong trend of exciting companies deciding to take advantage of the High Growth Segment. We’ve been really encouraged and welcome the support we have received from the London Stock Exchange so far. While we considered alternative venues, PensionBee is ultimately a British company and we will be proud to be a London listed company.

We are currently in the preparatory phases of planning and once this phase is finalised, it is likely that the listing is completed in the next 12-18 months, market conditions permitting.

What does a listing mean for our customers?

It’s “business as usual” at PensionBee and we continue to work hard at developing and delivering the UK’s most loved pension product. To that end, we have a robust plan of new feature launches, including most recently our Fossil Fuel Free Plan, created specifically following requests from our customers.

Of course, with such a significant corporate milestone underway and our unmatched commitment to PensionBee savers, we will explore offering our customers an opportunity to participate in the listing itself. We will share more information on this process at the appropriate time, but we want to be clear that a company built for our customers can also be owned by our customers.

Stay safe and wish you all a wonderful week ahead.

Becoming a publicly listed company
On Monday 26 April we were delighted to be admitted to the High Growth Segment of the Main Market of the London Stock Exchange.

Today, on Monday 26 April, we were delighted to be admitted to the High Growth Segment of the Main Market of the London Stock Exchange (PBEE). The High Growth Segment is exclusively designed for rapidly growing companies, such as PensionBee, to raise capital and to use the public market as a platform for future growth.

Back in November we announced our desire to become a public company, however the journey to this special moment truly started back in 2014 when PensionBee was founded as a result of my own poor pension experience. Becoming a publicly listed company has long been part of our strategy to be the best universal online pension provider, and we’re extremely proud to have reached this significant milestone.

Our IPO marks the culmination of seven years of hard work, and I’d like to thank my dedicated and talented colleagues for not only making this happen, but for the dedication they show to helping our customers each and every day.

I’d also like to thank our wonderful customers who are at the heart of all we do. We were thrilled that so many of you wanted to take part in this phase of our growth and applied for shares in our customer offer. We warmly welcome all of our new investors as important stakeholders in our business.

What happens next?

While it’s “business as usual” at PensionBee, our IPO will allow us to continue to grow rapidly and innovate. In practice, this means that the money we’ve raised will be used to fuel advertising and marketing initiatives so that we can help millions of people look forward to a happy retirement.

Our growth to date has been significant. As at 31 March 2021, PensionBee counted 137,000 active customers from 18-80 years of age, with c.£1.65 billion in assets under administration.

We’ll also be investing in our technology platform capabilities and enhancing our product. We have lots of new features and product innovations on our roadmap, and are excited to share them with you in due course.

Our commitment is, and always will be, to put our customers first, and we’ll continue using our voice to make positive changes in the pensions industry.

Today’s achievement is testament to our excellent track record and the strength of the opportunity that lies ahead. We look forward to thriving as a public company and embarking on the next step of our journey.

Fast fashion goes out of style for female pension savers
Our CEO, Romi Savova, discusses how socially conscious women are turning their back on the fast fashion industry.

Fast fashion retailers have made their name by offering shoppers a chance to keep up with the latest trends, at the lowest possible prices. Whether it be traditional high-street staples, such as Primark, or the new wave of online retailers, such as boohoo, the fast fashion industry has spent decades courting young female customers. Yet it seems the love affair is over, as young socially conscious women are turning their back on the industry.

At PensionBee, we believe in regularly surveying our customers to ensure our product continues to be aligned with the changing investment expectations of British savers. So earlier this year, we asked our customers their views on various industries their pensions were invested in.

We discovered that a majority of our customers have a strong distrust of the fast fashion industry. Not only do they believe it’s detrimental to society, but they don’t want to invest in fast fashion companies via their pension. This view was most prominent among female customers aged 30 and under (82%) despite the industry’s clear focus on this demographic.

So what’s driven this significant shift in opinion? Well increased education and understanding around the damage caused by unsustainable industries for one. A 2019 House of Commons report revealed that global textile production produces an estimated 1.2 billion tonnes of CO2 equivalent per year - more than international aviation and maritime shipping combined. The global fashion industry is also said to consume an estimated 79 billion cubic metres of fresh water annually. With the UK, sending an estimated £140 million worth of clothing to landfill each year.

These shocking statistics certainly seem to underpin this growing interest in sustainable living, and demand for sustainable investment options to match. Additional PensionBee research revealed that 94% of adults are taking steps to live more sustainable lifestyles - whether this be eating less meat, recycling or taking public transport. But even more encouragingly, this view is being widely applied to pension saving, with almost half of respondents (_scot_top_rate) preferring that their pension be invested sustainably to help drive positive change. In addition, 29% reported that they would change where their pensions are invested if it was unsustainable, and almost a quarter (24%) of young people (aged 18-34) felt so strongly that they would actively encourage others to leave that pension fund.

The industry’s association with labour exploitation in unsafe working conditions, is another component of its negative relationship with pension savers. PensionBee’s data shows that savers across all age groups and genders prioritise action on companies that treat workers unfairly, with 33% wishing to divest from companies that don’t pay the Living Wage to all of their workers.

So undoubtedly there’s a united desire to live more sustainably, with individuals making conscious decisions in their everyday lives to achieve this. More and more savers are beginning to recognise their investment power to transform the world they live in - for the better of the planet, society and their retirement.

The message from savers is loud and clear. They want fair and sustainable businesses in their pensions who will offer positive contributions for society, and subsequently provide longer-term returns.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

How can we improve the environment for female entrepreneurs in the UK?
In the UK, only one in three entrepreneurs are women and while there is a growing recognition that disparities exist between male and female entrepreneurs, it is a problem that has been going on far too long.

Despite pensions being one of the most complicated financial products to engage with, the most common question I get asked as the CEO of PensionBee is not to do with pensions, but instead my experience as a female founder.

In the UK, only one in three entrepreneurs are women and while there is a growing recognition that disparities exist between male and female entrepreneurs, it is a problem that has been going on far too long, preventing the UK economy from achieving approximately £250bn in growth.

When you look at the number of female CEOs of listed companies over the years, the situation is dire and progress has been unforgivably slow. Women do not lack the ability or desire to start and grow their own businesses, but yet they all face the same obstacle - funding. The Rose Review of Female Entrepreneurship found that female-led businesses receive less funding than businesses led by men at ‘every stage of the journey’.

This is a complex problem where, on average, women launch businesses with less capital than men and are likely to have less access to funding options as well as sponsors, mentors or professional support. In addition, venture capital (VC) funding is disproportionately invested by male investors into businesses led by men, accounting for female founders receiving less than 1% of all VC funding. Ultimately, this pattern leaves female founders starved of capital during critical points such as starting and scaling their business, meaning the circle of exclusion continues.

Recently, I was invited to an MP’s dinner to discuss how we can improve the environment for female entrepreneurs in the UK. There’s been a lot of talk about wanting to fix things, but this needs to translate into real figures. I strongly believe the only way to achieve true gender parity is to set targets now.

The Financial Conduct Authority recently mandated that listed companies have to disclose targets on the representation of women and ethnic minorities on their board and executive management, making it easier for investors to see the diversity of their senior leadership team. If a company cannot meet these targets, they need to explain why. I gladly welcome these new requirements, and would like to see them go even further. It’s time for private markets and large VC funds to face the same demands, disclosing diversity ratios annually in their partnerships and portfolios.

Similarly, while the government recently announced the launch of its new taskforce, dedicated to boosting the number of women starting fast-growing companies, funding beyond specific ‘female schemes’ has often been unfairly distributed. It was reported that just over 1% of all funding from the Future Fund - the government’s start-up rescue package during the pandemic - went to teams led by women. In comparison, around _basic_rate went to companies led entirely by men and the remainder was for those with mixed gender teams. If we are to truly tackle the funding barrier, government funding programs need to lead by example.

Finally, not only should pay gap reporting be a mandatory ask for any company operating in the UK, but public targets should also be necessary for all reporting companies. The gender pay gap is almost exclusively framed as an issue women should be solving themselves, and while there are actions women can take to fight the cause, solely placing the burden on the recipient of the problem is neither effective, nor fair. Equal pay for equal work is fundamentally the best way to ensure that we can build a strong pipeline of female talent in our economy, while public targets will help ensure a level playing field for future generations of female entrepreneurs.

What you need to know about pensions right now
Our CEO, Romi Savova, discusses what savers need to know in an uncertain pension environment.

Pensions have been in the news a lot lately. This is a time of great national anxiety and retirement worries can become especially pronounced when we witness economic turmoil and disruption around us. I’ve had the opportunity to discuss the latest developments with some of our customers and thought I’d share my thoughts here in case they’re useful to others. In sum, this has been a rocky time in financial markets, but there are opportunities for savers to enhance their future retirement readiness and strategies to help mitigate some of the negative effects of the external economic environment on pension pots today.

First of all, let me mention that the majority of newsflow at the moment is focused on defined benefit pensions, which reflect the promise of an employer to pay a final salary to former employees. Because of an array of accounting rules and associated investment strategies, many of these pension schemes have engaged in complex derivatives that are generating a need for them to sell assets, such as bonds and equities, in order to meet the collateral calls of their trading counterparties. The Bank of England has had to support pension funds by buying these assets. In short, while the situation sounds precarious and indeed may be for some of the institutions involved, the current consensus view is that there is little additional risk to the actual pensions that pensioners are receiving or may receive because ultimately the promise of the employer is intact and even if the employer’s promise falters, the Pension Protection Fund stands ready to step in.

While there is little direct impact on defined contribution pensions, such as the PensionBee Personal Pension, financial markets are interlinked and the chaos in the defined benefit pensions market has rattled global capital markets, which do indeed affect defined contribution pensions. This year has been particularly challenging for equities, bonds and the pound owing to interest rate tightening and the war in Ukraine, all of which would have contributed to declining pension balances with all pension providers in the country. Indeed, the only way to have avoided a balance drop this year would have been to invest in some combination of cash and commodities, an unlikely and highly risky approach to pension investment. Commodities are known to be volatile investments and cash itself would likely have had a negative real return after the effects of persistently high inflation in 2022. While poor pension performance across the whole country is likely to be of little consolation to those nearing retirement, it’s important to recognise that these types of economic environments, and their consequent impact on pensions, generally cannot be avoided. On the contrary, they’re considered to be a part of pension investments and one of the reasons why pensions have long-term returns of about 7% per year. Eventually markets will recover.

So given the current situation, what can and should you do? Well that depends. If you’re far from retirement and still mid-career, generally speaking, the accepted approach is to ride it out. If you’re closer to retirement and can even withdraw your pension, you may be wondering whether it’s better to simply take your pension money out and put it in the bank, thereby avoiding the losses of any additional market drops. That is usually not a good idea because you will ‘lock in’ your loss and miss out on the eventual market recovery. If you can wait until the recovery, your pension may be better served. You may also wonder whether you should switch plans, perhaps moving to a cash-like, lower risk plan. Again, this is a personal decision, but it’s important to consider that a loss is likely to be locked in and a lower risk plan will usually come with lower returns (that is why it’s a lower risk plan). If you must withdraw from your pension plan, it’s considered good practice to withdraw as little as possible so as to leave as much invested to take advantage of the eventual recovery. In the meantime, it’s important to be aware that markets could fall further, so you must be comfortable with your decision.

Finally, you should consider whether you can increase your pension contributions. It may seem counterintuitive, but in periods of downturn markets are often referred to as being ‘on sale’. Because markets tend to recover over the long-term, this may be an opportunity to invest in your retirement while prices are low and take advantage of the subsequent recovery. How long that may take is still unknown, but bear markets do occur throughout history and you can consider some analysis on averages and extremes.

Pension decisions are personal and this commentary should not be regarded as advice, but it’s in line with the guidance provided to pension companies by the Financial Conduct Authority during times of downturn. Take the time to think about which approach works best for you and to map out a financial plan that matches your expenditure, your opportunity to save and your pension withdrawals (if you’re able to make them). If you are over 50, speak to Pension Wise. As always, we at PensionBee are here to support our customers.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

Our journey to one million Registered Customers
Our CEO, Romi Savova, discusses PensionBee's journey to a million Registered Customers.

Back in 2014 when I founded PensionBee, after a negative experience trying to move my own pension after changing jobs, the pensions industry was a mess. Archaic systems, excessive fees, and complex paperwork were the ‘norm’. For some providers they still are, even eight years later.

Our mission’s to make pensions simple so everyone can save for a happy retirement, and we’ve been laser-focused on that goal ever since. Reaching the milestone of one million Registered Customers is quite an achievement, which wouldn’t have been possible without the ongoing support and trust of our wonderful customers.

We’re listening to our eco conscious savers like Hannah

Image of Hannah

Hannah, PensionBee customer since 2020.

Regularly surveying our customers and championing their voices in the pensions industry is a key part of PensionBee’s work. So when in early 2020 customers in the Future World Plan began sharing their concerns about climate change with us, we welcomed their feedback. In response we made it our mission to build a pension that balances saving for retirement while excluding fossil fuel producers, launching our Fossil Fuel Free Plan in December 2020. It invests in over 1,400 global companies and is one of the first mainstream funds of its kind to completely exclude firms with proven or probable reserves of oil, gas or coal, as well as tobacco companies, manufacturers of controversial weapons and persistent violators of the UN Global Compact.

In July 2021, we invited customers in the plan to share their views again on the current exclusion policy and learned that most expressed a strong interest in developing the impact of th addressing the world’s great social and environmental problems, allowing savers to use their pensions to invest in companies that have measurable, positive environmental and/or social outcomes.

We’re proud to champion sustainable investing as the future of engagement in pensions, and wholeheartedly believe that everyone should have the optie plan further. In response, we again scoured the market for a suitable product and couldn’t find one. Designed in collaboration with BlackRock, our new Impact Plan invests exclusively in companieson to use their investment for good - transforming the planet, society and their retirement for the better.

We’re innovating for our retired customers like Andrew

Image of Andrew

Andrew, PensionBee customer since 2019.

We’re constantly innovating and setting new standards of transparency and convenience in an industry that hasn’t adapted with advances in technology and consumer behaviour in decades. We’ve found a way to connect with a generation that has long been forgotten by the legacy providers, by creating a product that gives people a sense of optimism about their future, as they know they are saving regularly for the retirement they expect and deserve.

According to the Pensions and Lifetime Savings Association (PLSA), 77% of savers don’t know how much they’ll need in retirement. In 2018 we became the first pension provider to utilise Open Banking, enabling customers to see their complete financial position, with their live pension balance displayed alongside their live current account balance in some of the UK’s most popular money management apps.

As over 69% of our invested customers have installed our mobile app, we’ve made several updates to make it even easier to manage your retirement income from your phone. These include our 60-second ‘Easy bank transfer‘ contribution feature, personalised tax codes for withdrawing customers and a highly detailed transfer tracker.

Earlier this year we were excited to bring the withdrawal feature to our mobile app. When the time comes to start withdrawing from your pension it should be simple and stress-free. That’s why this year, we’ve launched our regular withdrawals feature to do just that. Customers like Andrew can now request a withdrawal so that they can receive a monthly payment on a selected date, without needing to make a request each month.

We’re simplifying pensions for our self-employed customers like Mary

Image of Mary

Mary, PensionBee customer since 2021.

The self-employed have long been underserved by the pensions industry and without the benefits of Auto-Enrolment, this group is significantly disadvantaged when it comes to saving for retirement. Just 16% of self-employed workers pay into a pension, causing millions to retire without adequate savings.

In January 2021, we launched a flexible product for self-employed customers, enabling them to start a new pension with no minimum contributions. Self-employed customers can make one-off or regular contributions via bank transfer online or via the PensionBee app, from personal or business bank accounts, as a sole trader or a limited company respectively.

We’re championing the needs of our customers

Image of Zahid

Zahid, PensionBee customer since 2021.

We put our customers at the heart of everything we do. Now, with more than a million Registered Customers putting their trust in us and over £3 billion in Assets under Administration from our Invested Customers, we’re continuing to champion their calls for a simpler, accessible pension landscape.

The industry urgently needs to innovate so that consumers can enjoy the same basic switching rights, as seen in other essential services and utilities. Legislating for a 10-day pension switch guarantee is an essential next step to help build trust and drive better engagement with pension saving, particularly in today’s tough economic climate.

In this day and age, no consumer should be prevented from switching pension providers due to lengthy transfer times from outdated paper processes. The technology to simplify pension saving exists, and all providers must utilise it, so that everyone can take charge of their pension savings and look forward to a happy retirement.

We’re very proud of our work empowering savers to take control of their finances. We look forward to continuing to listen to the needs of our customers, to championing their voices. We’re here to help savers take control of their savings with the introduction of new tools, uniquely designed to help navigate high inflation and complicated tax rules, to help them better plan their retirement savings.

We’re campaigning for a better pensions industry for everyone. We look forward to working with the government, the industry and all stakeholders to ensure that the pensions industry continues to evolve to meet the changing needs and desires of consumers. As this milestone shows, consumers are aching for a pension industry that works for them.

Notes

1. Registered Customers are PensionBee customers who have started the sign up process and have submitted at least a name and an email address.

2. Invested Customers are customers with an account that holds pension assets in PensionBee plans.

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E38: How to shift careers with Hannah Martin, Suzanne Noble, and Anindya Bhattacharyya

27
Apr 2025

The following is a transcript of our monthly podcast, The Pension Confident Podcast. Listen to episode 38 or scroll on to read the conversation.

Takeaways from this episode

  • Career change is increasingly common - societal shifts and evolving job markets are leading more people to consider and make significant career transitions.
  • Transferable skills are key - identifying and leveraging existing skills can smooth the transition into a new field, even if the industries seem vastly different.
  • Age presents both challenges and opportunities - while older career changers might face biases, their accumulated experience and soft skills are highly valuable.
  • Thorough financial planning is non-negotiable - carefully assessing affordability, budgeting, and understanding long-term financial implications are critical steps.
  • Exploration and self-reflection are vital - considering personal interests, values, and even pastimes can uncover unexpected and fulfilling career possibilities.
  • Taking action, even small steps, builds momentum - overcoming inertia and actively exploring options is crucial for turning the desire for change into reality.

PHILIPPA: Hi, welcome back. Were you at work today? How was it? Same old, same old? Well, maybe it’s time for a change. Maybe it’s time to do something completely new. Work is work, right? We all have good days and bad days. But if you’re stuck in a job that bores you, or you’ve hit your earnings ceiling, or you can’t work as flexibly, maybe, as you’d like - you don’t have to sit there and take it.

Since the [COVID-19] pandemic, about four million Brits have already taken that leap: they’ve changed careers. And with [artificial intelligence] (AI) putting some jobs at risk, another 285,000 people might have to make that switch as soon as 2030. Now, of course, changing careers, it’s a big step. Especially if you’ve spent years in one industry. Where can you find tools and guidance to help you? And, because we always want you to be thinking about your financial future, how can you keep your money on track?

I’m Philippa Lamb, and if you haven’t already subscribed to The Pension Confident Podcast - why not click right now so you never miss an episode? We’re talking about career change. Here with me, I have Suzanne Noble, she’s the Co-Founder of the Startup School for Seniors. Hannah Martin is here, too. She’s the Founder of the Talented Ladies Club. And from PensionBee this time, we have Senior Software Engineer, Anindya Bhattacharyya - better known as Bat. Hello, everyone.

BAT: Hi there.

HANNAH: Hello.

SUZANNE: Hello.

PHILIPPA: Here’s the usual disclaimer before we start. Please do remember, anything discussed on the podcast shouldn’t be regarded as financial advice or legal advice. And when investing, your capital is at risk.

What would your instant career swap be?

PHILIPPA: Now look, I want to ask all of you, if you had the chance to swap careers right now, no retraining required, what would your dream job be?

SUZANNE: I’d be a travel blogger.

PHILIPPA: Would you?

SUZANNE: Yes.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, that’s quite a tempting thought, isn’t it? Being paid -

SUZANNE: - just being paid to travel. That’s what I’d do, yeah.

PHILIPPA: Mine is quite similar actually I think, I’d sit at home all day and write novels. That really sounds very appealing to me. Any others?

BAT: Yeah, go somewhere hot. I think. Go, go work somewhere hot.

PHILIPPA: Doing?

BAT: Something that’s not strenuous - reading? Something like that. Can you get paid for that?

PHILIPPA: That’s not a job. Well, proofreading, maybe.

BAT: I used to do that. That is strenuous - and badly paid.

HANNAH: I’d be a private eye because it’s got travel, digging up secrets. Every day is different. It’d be quite exciting. I’d love it.

Transferable skills and portfolio careers

PHILIPPA: We’re talking here about not just finding a new job, we’re talking about finding a whole new career. There’s a lot to think about, but a lot more people do it now. [The] data says a lot more people do it. Why do we think that is?

HANNAH: I think we have a much more portfolio idea of careers. Certainly, when I was younger, people would expect to see you stay in the same job for four or five years. If you moved jobs every year or so, your CV would look really bad. But I think today, it’s the opposite, actually. If you interviewed someone who’d been in one job for eight years, you’d question why they’d stayed there. I think culturally, we do change careers a lot more than we used to, at least jobs, and that would extend to careers as well, potentially.

PHILIPPA: So, it’s attitudinal then. Bat?

BAT: I think the thing about changes in society driving it, that was certainly the case for me. I trained as a Journalist and newspapers were an integral feature of people’s lives. Britain had the second-highest newspaper readership in the world after Japan. Everybody read a paper. You might as well describe a horse and cart to young people nowadays.

PHILIPPA: That’s so true.

BAT: That’s just completely changed.

PHILIPPA: So, when did you change?

BAT: 2014, 2015. After a period of extremely ineffectual freelancing, I decided “no, come on”. I learned to code. I was always interested in tinkering about, hobbying, hobbyist computing. It wasn’t a massive jump for me, but I went off and did a 12-week boot camp course and retrained as a Programmer and then joined PensionBee shortly thereafter.

PHILIPPA: It’s a big change, isn’t it? I mean, they’re very different jobs.

BAT: You’d have thought so. They’re culturally presented as quite different, but I’m actually quite surprised at the number of random skills that transfer. I mean, like being able to spot where a semicolon is missing in a block of text is a skill that transfers from newspaper journalism to -

PHILIPPA: - to coding.

BAT: To coding, yes.

The end of the 40-year career

PHILIPPA: I get it. I mean, I guess other common reasons back in the day, it always used to be people moved jobs, at least, and sometimes careers, because they really didn’t like their boss. That was top of the list, wasn’t it? Do we think it’s often about high stress work?

SUZANNE: When you’ve got quite complex lives nowadays where a lot of the people that I know have caring responsibilities, they just can’t cope with the intense work that they’re being asked to perform.

PHILIPPA: So, the combination of pressures.

SUZANNE: They’re looking at their life and thinking: “I just can’t fundamentally deal with all of this. I’ve got to go visit my mum this weekend because she’s having problems. I might still have a kid at home“. This whole ‘sandwich generation‘ now is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. With that comes a lot of different types of responsibilities.

PHILIPPA: I think there’s quite a lot in that.

HANNAH: I think. Also, there’s more of an expectation today that we should enjoy what we do.

PHILIPPA: Yes, true.

HANNAH: This idea, again, a job for life, you just stick with it for better or worse. But today, we don’t have to do that. If work is intolerable, the idea that you must stay there and put in that time - isn’t there. It gives you more freedom to make that move, I think, or more permission.

PHILIPPA: We’ve got higher expectations, haven’t we?

HANNAH: We do.

PHILIPPA: We want to enjoy our work.

HANNAH: We should.

PHILIPPA: When I think about our grandparents, a job is a job, right? It’s just about the money. But now it’s about a whole bunch of other stuff, isn’t it? Work has changed a lot, as we said in the last 20 years. We’re generally thinking then that it’s easier to make a switch now?

HANNAH: In some ways, the more choice you have, the harder it is. I think because especially with remote working, the idea that you have to look for jobs in your town no longer exists. The whole world literally is your oyster, potentially.

PHILIPPA: Sure.

HANNAH: I think that creates extra pressure. All this idea with social media and people posting about how much they love their lives -

PHILIPPA: Oh, yes. Everyone else’s ‘perfect life’.

HANNAH: Exactly. If you’re not loving what you do, then you’re thinking: “there’s something wrong with me. But then what do I do? Because there’s a million things I could do”. I think in some ways; it’s a bit harder.

Most common age for making a career switch

PHILIPPA: I was interested to see that the most common age for switching is 31. Why do we think that is?

SUZANNE: I was going to say it must be early 30s because you’ve got some experience behind you. You have a much clearer idea of the direction in which you might want to go and you’re still viewed as having lots of energy, lots of enthusiasm, being able to pick up technology quickly.

I know that it takes a person over 50 at least twice as long as any other age group to get a job once they’ve left their former job. So switching isn’t easy. And often it’s switching into consultancy or switching into self-employment or switching into something where they have more control over what they do every day rather than switching into a full-time role - because frankly, they’re just not available.

PHILIPPA: Interesting.

BAT: I actually did a sort of mini switch at 31.

PHILIPPA: Did you?

BAT: Yes, because in my 20s, I was a Financial Journalist and I wrote about technology in the city, which was quite lucrative, but also very boring at parties. I think in my early 30s, I was just too bored of it. I’d just been doing nothing but that for 10 years. I’d figured out how it all worked, which was the curiosity. You need curiosity to be a Journalist, and that had gone. I switched into much more general news.

PHILIPPA: A mini career switch?

BAT: Yeah.

Pitching yourself as an older employee

PHILIPPA: But as you say, doing it older can be much, much tougher. It’s just the way it is. There’s no point denying it. What can we say that’s useful there? How would you pitch the idea of yourself as an older worker to a new employer?

SUZANNE: Ah, that’s a good question. I think what people fail to realise is that lots of their skills are transferable, as you said.

PHILIPPA: What things are we talking about?

SUZANNE: Soft skills, especially. Being able to work with people, being able to manage people, knowing how to run departments, for instance, which are skills that are developed over time as you go up through the hierarchy of, say, a corporate environment. Those sort of skills can be useful in lots of different environments and often they’re underestimated by people who are trying to switch roles. I also think that just generally, the people that I come across, the thing that they lack is confidence. Because they look at some of these ways, new ways of being interviewed, these automated ways where they just have to speak into a computer and answer questions.

PHILIPPA: Everyone hates that, don’t they?

SUZANNE: Yeah, but I suspect that if you haven’t ever done it before and you’re looking at this person with wrinkles now and applying for jobs, then that can be quite scary.

PHILIPPA: Yeah.

SUZANNE: Also, what people fail to realise is that they can retrain. I think there’s this assumption that older people are slower in picking up technology. Older people can’t use the internet. I mean, we invented the internet!

PHILIPPA: It’d be weird if you were in your 50s and you couldn’t use the internet.

SUZANNE: But I do find people say to me, “I’ve never used Zoom before”. And I say to them, “you know what? You’re going to click that link right now”. They say, “is that all I have to do?”. And I say, “that’s all you have to do. Your camera’s turned on, your mic is on. Look, here you are”.

PHILIPPA: You’re good to go.

Retraining for a new role

PHILIPPA: But if we’re talking about actual retraining for a role, how easy is it to access retraining when you’re older? Because we think of training as stuff that people do at the beginning of their careers or in a job role. If you’re starting cold at, I don’t know, post-50, what’s out there for you?

SUZANNE: I mean, there’s lots of - You work in technology. There’s a huge amount of free courses available via Google, for instance. In learning AI, learning cybersecurity, learning some of the new skills that people are going to need to know for this new environment of work, like artificial intelligence, for instance.

So Udemy, Coursera - there’s so many platforms now where they’ll teach you these skills: learning social media, social media management, content creation. I mean, there’s a host of opportunities to retrain in all of these fields, and none of them are particularly difficult.

PHILIPPA: And that’s what you did, Bat. You did it online?

BAT: No.

PHILIPPA: No?

BAT: No. I found that I had a decent hobbyist knowledge. I’d done a few courses, but no employer was going to hire a Junior Programmer with zero experience, who was in his 40s, who’d been a newspaper Journalist for the past 20 years. I had to go and do the boot camp and that’s what taught me the career skills. That’s what got me the first job.

PHILIPPA: What did you learn at this boot camp?

BAT: What was expected of a Junior Programmer? What tools do you use? What are the standard industry techniques? Which, of course, were completely different from the last time I programmed a computer professionally - which would’ve been 25 years previously.

PHILIPPA: OK.

BAT: That map of the territory that I was going into I found the most [useful]. Because that’s the bit I was useless at. I’ve never been very good at the hustle of job interviews. I spent about six months just firing off interview applications, having made the decision to switch, before I came across that [boot camp].

HANNAH: I think retraining at any age, you need the same thing. You need to be resourceful. You need to go outside your comfort zone. You need to take risks. You need to leverage your network. I don’t think in a way it’s any different if you’re 50, 55 or 30. I think you’re going to have to put yourself out there. You’re going to have to research. You’re going to have to do some groundwork yourself.

PHILIPPA: So, it’s mindset?

HANNAH: It is. Absolutely, yes.

PHILIPPA: I guess if you’re highly motivated, you can find that, can’t you? But in practical terms, I’m thinking about things like apprenticeships. Are there any age limits around those? You think of them as something for young people, don’t you?

SUZANNE: Some apprenticeships have age limits -

PHILIPPA: They do?

SUZANNE: - and some of them don’t.

PHILIPPA: They shouldn’t, should they? Why do they have age limits? Because when you think about it, when we have anti-age discrimination legislation, so I’m wondering why there’s age limits on things like apprenticeships. Because ideally, you should be able to retrain at any stage, shouldn’t you?

BAT: When I was young, I remember growing up and Open University was on BBC Two. And there was this future promised, of higher education, all of this stuff would just be delivered to everyone universally over these hot new technologies like television. Has that really happened? I just feel that given the potential, what we have is a fraction of what - We could live in a world where it’s perfectly normal to just start a degree in literature in your late 40s at the local poly[technic college].

Can you afford to switch careers?

PHILIPPA: This does bring us to the crunch question, doesn’t it? Can you afford it? Because it’s all very well. We can sit here and say, “wouldn’t it be great if I was a novelist and wouldn’t it be great if you were sitting on a beach?” and, as I understand it, Bat, not really doing anything but getting paid is the plan.

But more realistically, there’s a lot of groundwork to do on the money front, isn’t there, before you think about this? Particularly if you’re doing it when you’re a bit older, because at that stage, most of us have financial responsibilities. So, thinking about training, I guess it’s worth remembering, you don’t necessarily have to give up the job or career you’ve got right now in order to retrain, do you? So, talk to me about options there. I’m guessing there’s quite a lot you can do.

SUZANNE: For the people that I teach who want to start something for themselves, I always say to them, “the best time for you to do it is when you’re still in work. Because you’ve got that financial security and you can start playing with this idea that you’ve got, which you might have had for years, but without that fear that suddenly your income is just going to disappear”.

If you’re not in work and you’re thinking about, again, moving into something for yourself, then I always advise people that it’s not going to be quick. That starting up on your own, you’re generally looking at a two-year window in which you’re going to be building up your salary slowly to try to get it to the point, whatever point that is that you’re looking for.

Now, not everybody wants to replace their full-time salary, especially when they’re older. They might have some savings, they might have a pension, for instance, and wanting to supplement that, but it’s never going to be quick. The longer you have as a runway to move into that place that you want to get to, the better. Because I suspect that for a lot of people, they think that it’s just going to be this instant thing, and they’re suddenly going to make all that money. Then when they don’t, there’s a huge amount of disappointment that comes with that, and often people then give up.

PHILIPPA: Yeah and get very dispirited.

HANNAH: I think that there’s a lot of messaging around today, again, on social media about how easy it is to make money. How people are making six figures instantly, and it just doesn’t work like that. I totally agree. It takes quite a long time. But also as a counterpoint to that, because there won’t be people listening who don’t maybe have the luxury of long-term planning, is that sometimes when you have a safety net, if you plan too well, you never really take risks. Because it’s like if you were learning to fly the trapeze and you had a safety net underneath you, if you fall, you’re going to live. But if there was no safety net, you’d learn a lot faster -

PHILIPPA: Or die.

HANNAH: - because you’d make that much sure. Sometimes we can plan too much, and we can get too stuck in the, “I’m only going to make the move when it’s perfect”.

Financial checklist before making the leap

PHILIPPA: I must say I’m a real planner, just by nature. A risk taker, but a planner. It’s a planned risk, isn’t it? It’s that whole thing of sitting down and evaluating where your finances are, what your absolutely unavoidable outgoings are, all the usual budgetary stuff we often talk about on the podcast. What money do you have to have? How much less could you manage on?

Because think about long-term consequences of this. Obviously, there’s loads of positives we can think about, but I’m going to raise all these cautious things like, most people have a - It’s a workplace pension. So, if they ditch their job, those contributions stop. And that’s going to have a serious knock-on effect when you’re older.

You’re not going to feel it right away. But so those things need to be factored into your thinking, don’t they? And can you maintain pension contributions yourself, even when you’re retraining, even if it’s at a lower level? Do you find people think about that thing, Suzanne, or do they just want to leap, or they just have to leap.

SUZANNE: We do actually bring in Pension Advisers to give talks to people -

PHILIPPA: Do you?

SUZANNE: - about the impact of all of this on their pension. It’s not something that’s commonly spoken about.

PHILIPPA: No.

SUZANNE: When you realise what the impact could be, it’s substantial.

PHILIPPA: Yeah, you might have medical insurance.

SUZANNE: Exactly.

PHILIPPA: There’s all sorts of benefits. Workplace benefits can just disappear, admittedly, maybe just for a period of time. But they’re gone, aren’t they?

SUZANNE: Exactly. I don’t think people think about this enough. They just jump into things sometimes without thinking about the consequences.

PHILIPPA: Do you sit them down and teach them how to budget, essentially, how to create a budget for this move?

SUZANNE: Absolutely. Yeah. We ask them to look at their overheads. We ask them to look at what their day-to-day expenses look like. We ask them to look at - We ask them to put together basically a financial plan, a very simple financial plan, but a financial plan, nonetheless. Then we ask them to create an action plan so that they can think about what are those steps that they need to take to get to where they want to be.

Finding possible funding opportunities

PHILIPPA: Realistic planning about this budget, about this financial plan, and what you can realistically expect to earn when you’ve actually established yourself. It’s quite hard to know what that number is, isn’t it?

HANNAH: But if you don’t know, you’re walking blindly, aren’t you? You could spend five years devoting yourself to getting there and then finding out that it was never something that was sustainable for you.

SUZANNE: Absolutely.

PHILIPPA: I guess that’s where things like teaching, retraining as a teacher, that’s quite helpful because you can look at salary bands. You have a reasonable expectation of understanding what you’re likely to earn. Or for you, Bat.

BAT: Yeah.

PHILIPPA: Presumably, you knew what you could potentially earn.

BAT: In terms of funding the course, I took out a ‘Careers Development Loan‘. Even with someone with a slightly spotty credit history, because it was a loan tied to careers development, the bank was like, “OK, he’s going to get a job. Fine”.

PHILIPPA: Have you got platforms you can recommend for where people would go to find out about money, grants, the stuff they could apply for?

SUZANNE: I myself got a startup loan years ago.

PHILIPPA: From the bank?

SUZANNE: From Virgin StartUp, which are still there. Startup loans are still available, so that’s good. They’re one of the few loans available. If you’re looking at starting a business and you have a bit of a spotty credit history.

HANNAH: They give you a mentor as well.

SUZANNE: And they give you a mentor.

HANNAH: They still do that.

PHILIPPA: Do they?

SUZANNE: There are grants if you want to set up social enterprise businesses through funds like Unlimited or School of Social Entrepreneurs is another one, or the Big Lottery also [does] grants. There aren’t that many business loans available, sadly, anymore. If you want to set up a business, probably startup loans are one of the few that’s more readily available.

Available support for getting started

PHILIPPA: I’m thinking about people who are listening to this thinking, “I really hate my job. I’d love to do this, but I’m not quite sure what I should aim at”. Where would we suggest they go to game out a few career ideas, think what might suit them? Is it free? I mean, there must be. There must be loads of stuff online they could do where they could test their suitability for alternative careers.

SUZANNE: Startup School for Seniors is specifically aimed at people who have ideas (or too many ideas) and trying to help them sift through all of those to try to find the one that actually looks the most feasible, the most suitable for them, the one that they’re actually going to stick with.

There are obviously the National Career Services, which will help you explore your career options, rebuild your CVs to think about that move. The other thing that we haven’t spoken about that I think is really important to mention is volunteering, because we get a lot of people who decide to make that move as a result of volunteering.

PHILIPPA: While you’re still working, but ideally -

SUZANNE: Absolutely.

PHILIPPA: - presumably, on the side?

SUZANNE: Yeah, definitely.

PHILIPPA: How easy is it, though, to segue a volunteer job into a job?

SUZANNE: Well, I think it’s one of the ways that we certainly see that people have rebuilt their confidence. The win there is about confidence building and feeling capable about making that career shift. Because often the lack of confidence is what’s preventing people from actually shifting careers.

PHILIPPA: Yeah. Is that what you find, too?

HANNAH: Absolutely. It’s a taster of it, isn’t it? I think, and also just exposing yourself to different jobs that you maybe hadn’t even thought about. To speak to people, ask people what they do. Even watching TV programmes and seeing what kind of jobs people have.

One of the things that if someone is really stuck, I often get people to do is think back to when you’re a child. Before we do things because we should do them. Think about when you played, what games you played. Were you creative? Were you outdoors? There’s often lots of clues in the patterns of things you were naturally drawn to and then go and look.

I’ve done workshops with people where a woman really hated her job. She worked in a basement for a micromanaging boss. When she did this exercise, she said, “oh, I can’t see any patterns”. I looked at it and it was all climbing trees, building dens. It was all outside and it was all free. She was in a job that was the opposite.

PHILIPPA: Polar opposite of that.

Are your passions a good guide?

HANNAH: Exactly. It’s tapping into your innate passions because I think we often lose touch with actually who we are and the things that we love to do. And the idea that we have a right to be doing things that we really enjoy, because I think ultimately that’s what we should be doing.

BAT: The point about what someone actually wants to do being completely not obvious to that person. When I was, I needed to get out of journalism, my first thought was academia.

PHILIPPA: Was it?

BAT: I did a Masters, a part-time Masters course, and that was enough to remind myself about why I left.

PHILIPPA: Why didn’t you become an academic?

BAT: Why I was running away from academia in the first place. It was like, it took me a little while of chasing actually quite inappropriate self-diligence before realising.

PHILIPPA: Did it? How much did you spend doing that?

BAT: It was a part-time Masters. I was working at the time. It was over a period of two years.

PHILIPPA: But it sounds like it was quite a useful process.

BAT: It was, yes. I quite enjoyed writing my dissertation and stuff like that. I mean, it was fun. But it was like, “I’m not going to make my money this way”.

HANNAH: I think that’s an important point, because it’s as important to eliminate things that are wrong as it is to find the things that are right. I think volunteering is a really great way to do that. You might think, “I’d love to work with animals”. Then you go and volunteer one day a week in an animal shelter and realise, “oh my god, I’m terrified of animals. I hate it. It’s all dirty”.

PHILIPPA: What you don’t want as well, because we all write wish lists of what we’d like. But I think in some ways, is it quite useful to write a wish list of stuff you definitely don’t want to do? Which might be you don’t want to manage people, or you don’t want to work outside, or you don’t want to have a long commute.

SUZANNE: Or work in an office.

BAT: Use Microsoft Word.

PHILIPPA: Other software is available.

SUZANNE: I was reminded of your conversation that years ago I said, “I want to run a small boutique hotel in Mexico, where I swan around in a kaftan and just ask people what they want to eat every day. While I instruct the Michelin starred chef what to -

PHILIPPA: To make?

SUZANNE: - to do”. Then I started doing Airbnb.

PHILIPPA: Ah ha! And how was that?

SUZANNE: Then I realised that I’ll never run a boutique hotel in Mexico.

PHILIPPA: Or anywhere else?

SUZANNE: Or anywhere else for this.

HANNAH: That maybe saved you an expensive lesson.

SUZANNE: A very expensive lesson.

BAT: I’m impressed at the level of detail in the original fantasy.

HANNAH: Clearly well thought out.

BAT: You’ve been thinking about this, haven’t you?

SUZANNE: I’ve been thinking about it for a really long time.

Tips for how to switch careers

PHILIPPA: Just recapping here. I’d say first things first: budget. Would we agree?

SUZANNE: Yes, definitely.

PHILIPPA: Budget. Realistic budget about what you’ve got, what you need, what you’re likely to earn in future. Then what gave me this idea of what you want, what you don’t want?

SUZANNE: Take those steps to find out, because often, like my Mexican adventure, it’s an idea swirling around in my head. You have to start at least taking some steps to think, “am I actually going to like this?”. Don’t let it sit around in your head for too long. Actually do something about it.

HANNAH: Maybe even do things like go online and research, look on Glassdoor, what do you people say about the jobs? Or even go on a forum and ask people, let’s say you want to be a physiotherapist, “what’s great about being a physiotherapist and what’s terrible about it?”.

PHILIPPA: Now, I like that idea because that’s real people doing the job telling the truth. Absolutely. Bat, what else?

BAT: I mean, the point made earlier about whatever step you take, do it already. Every single thing that I ever did to shift careers was the correct thing to do, except I should’ve done it beforehand -

PHILIPPA: Really?

BAT: - and stopped sitting around twiddling my thumbs and dithering about it. It was the confidence to get it rolling. Once you start to move the boulder, it takes up momentum and it takes off. Looking back, that was that. If there’s one piece of advice I’d give, it’s like, move fast.

HANNAH: Don’t be afraid. Because we’re so afraid of making mistakes. “What if I do it and it doesn’t work out?”.

But the Susan Jeffers’ book, ‘Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway’, has this great thing where she says, “we think it’s like two choices: right and wrong. But actually, it’s get what I expect and then go somewhere new and find out new things”. So even if the thing that you try isn’t the thing ultimately you love, you’ll have learned a lot, met different people, and acquired new skills along that way.

PHILIPPA: And a new perspective, ideas that you didn’t have before. I’m going to close this by just asking about support systems along the way. Because it’s all very well, we start off with this, “I’m going to do it, jack in the job or retrain or whatever”.

But I’m thinking, I mean, this can be a long process, as we’ve said, particularly starting with retraining or volunteering or finding your way through this big, bold step. You’re going to people around you, aren’t you? A little SWAT team to help you along the way, because I’m guessing it’s quite easy to lose heart with it, actually, when things don’t necessarily work out as soon as you might hope.

HANNAH: You do, but there’s also that thing that sometimes when we’re at rock bottom, that we make the bravest choices. Absolutely, I think always having a team around you is important. But if anyone’s listening who doesn’t and thinking, “therefore, I don’t have that to do it”. Like I say, sometimes when you’ve got nothing else to lose, you can make bolder things. And you have to take that risk and that can work out as well. In an ideal world, yes, absolutely. But if you don’t, it’s still OK.

PHILIPPA: I’m thinking, if this sounds tempting, people listen to this and they’re thinking, “yeah, I like this idea”. How can they be sure it’s not just a bad week wobble, or midlife wobble, and it actually is something that they should do?

BAT: It’s when you have that idea over and over and over and over again.

PHILIPPA: OK. Any other thoughts?

HANNAH: I think, yeah, exactly that. If you literally, you’re generally OK and you have one bad week, then that’s just one bad week. But as Bat said, if it’s every day and you hate it. And even if your friend starts saying, “oh my god, you’re not going to talk about your job again, are you?”. Often, people around us notice before we do.

ALL: Yeah.

HANNAH: That thing, if you throw a frog in boiling water, it jumps out. But if you heat it up slowly, it won’t. Sometimes maybe we don’t realise. But I think if your friends and family are like, “oh my god, you hate your job” - then maybe that’s a clue.

PHILIPPA: That’s great. Thank you so much, everyone. I’ve really enjoyed it.

SUZANNE: Thank you.

HANNAH: Thank you.

BAT: Thank you.

PHILIPPA: If you’re enjoying the series, please do give us a rating and a review. If you’re watching on YouTube, why not leave us a comment about your own career switch story or aspiration? We’d love to hear it.

If you missed an episode, no problem. You can catch up anytime on your favourite podcast app, YouTube, or of course, the PensionBee app for PensionBee customers.

Next month, we’ll be answering a big question: how can you turn market volatility into an opportunity? Investing can feel like a roller coaster right now, so we’ll be explaining how you can navigate ups and downs without making rash decisions. It’s going to be a fascinating discussion. Don’t miss it.

Just a final reminder, anything discussed on the podcast shouldn’t be regarded as financial advice or legal advice. When investing, your capital is at risk. Thanks for being with us. We’ll see you next time.

Risk warning

As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.

Period
Market Event
FTSE World TR GBP (%)
4Plus Plan (%)
4Plus Plan’s inception – 6 Sept 2013
QE Tapering, China Interbank Crisis and its aftermath
-5.44
-2.41
3 Oct 2014 – 15 May 2015
Oil price drop, Eurozone deflation fears & Greek election outcome
-5.87
-1.77
7 Jan 2016 – 14 Mar 2016
China’s currency policy turmoil, collapse in oil prices and weak US activity
-7.26
-1.54
15 June 2016 – 30 June 2016
BREXIT referendum
-2.05
-1.07
Period
Market Event
FTSE World TR GBP (%)
4Plus Plan (%)
4Plus Plan’s inception – 6 Sept 2013
QE Tapering, China Interbank Crisis and its aftermath
-5.44
-2.41
3 Oct 2014 – 15 May 2015
Oil price drop, Eurozone deflation fears & Greek election outcome
-5.87
-1.77
7 Jan 2016 – 14 Mar 2016
China’s currency policy turmoil, collapse in oil prices and weak US activity
-7.26
-1.54
15 June 2016 – 30 June 2016
BREXIT referendum
-2.05
-1.07
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